Specific flooding questions


JTDillon

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Apr 3, 2020
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Hello everyone, I warn ahead of time that I overthink everything :/
Id also like to say ahead of time that I know I bring up A LOT and that I don't expect anyone to address everything I say, but if anyone has any insight on one question id be grateful for your input. I sincerely appreciate the time and effort you guys put into these discussions.

I come seeking your wisdom and knowledge (if I am worthy)…
I, like many of you, think about how the Titanic sank but the 2 minute animations don't cut it for me. Im looking for something far more detailed.

I found some amazing deck plans on this site tonight, so the idea I had was to use MS Paint and literally paint the flooding inside each deck at certain times, I could use the deck plans to see where the stair cases are and the path the water took.
I was using this as a general guide--->>> TITANICS_FORENSIC_ANALYSIS_COLLECTION.pdf , but I know there are better timelines of the sinking based off of eye witness accounts. Can someone point me in the direction of a good "all around" compilation of eyewitness accounts that night related to the flooding- hopefully in chronological order? .....For example, who saw water, where they saw it and at what times? I will continue to look myself, but I find a lot of great specific gems mixed in different threads. Usually the conversation in the thread digresses and the pieces of info I want aren't even in threads I would've thought to look in of that makes sense.

Im curious about the flooding of C Deck; it would appear the only access to C deck from D deck is the grand staircase, so the water must have reached the D deck landing of the staircase, then flooded into C deck. At that point, im sure water would have made its way through the ceiling of D deck into the floors of C deck (vents and such) but not enough to fill C deck id imagine, and the ship would be at such an incline that the water coming up the grand staircase from d deck would be flowing down the halls of C deck toward the bow. Does that make sense?
However, the exterior water line would be above C deck by this point, in fact, it would be submerging parts of the B deck promenade deck and coming in the doors im sure....Im sure if water was on B deck, it would of course find its way down into C deck without a stair case ( vents and such) so would it be safe to say that water was flooding c deck by trickling down from above, seeping in from below, and flooded from the grand staircase?
This is what I mean with over thinking...…

I also wonder about the flooding of boiler room 5. I know there was damage to the coal bunker so it was closed, and approx. one hour later there was a sudden surge of water into boiler room 5, the most commonly accepted theory is that it was the coal bunker door finally giving way and releasing its contents. Ive seen some math figures and they suggest even if the water filled the coal bunker full before the bunker door gave way and released all its contents, it would be enough water to barely come above the floor plates let alone be a wall of water. The door would've given way, the water would flow out the bunker door, maybe outward a few feet but for the most part the water would flow straight down into the floor plates and the water level would've quickly settled- not travel as a wall of water in between the boilers. I remember also reading that he claimed the water influx was so great and sudden that it "washed" away a gentleman with a broken leg and barely left enough time for the him to get away. This doesnt seem right, not based off of the amount of water held inside a coal bunker anyway. Id imagine that the coal bunker door isn't water proof either and that they would've seen/heard water leaking/spraying out of the coal bunker door? Wouldn't this make them suspicious about the incoming water and to keep an eye on it? And perhaps not panic when it gave way?
I haven't seen anyone yet propose the idea but maybe is it possible the guy who were relying on for this testimony was just making excuses for getting out of the boiler rooms and up to the boat deck as soon as possible without looking like a coward? We know he fled BR 6 (boiler room) through the water tight door into BR 5 immediately after the collision...he said he did so because the flooding in BR 6 was catastrophic, but I believe another gentleman stayed in BR 6 for a good 15 minutes before leaving and said the water level was rising slowly and he had time to do his duty before leaving? The two testimonies seemed to contradict one another and cant seem to be reconciled...
Then the guy who fled 6 right away also flees 5 at the first opportunity too, both his accounts seem to be overly dramatic. Just a thought anyway, Im not calling anyone a coward and I guarantee I am ignorant to a lot of info here.... I just imagine being down in the lowest part of a ship filling with water, you have no idea whats going on, you notice the ship listing, you know the adjacent compartment is full of water and panic sets in....every minute feels like an hour and you think about if the ship is sinking, getting trapped below decks, lifeboats being gone etc. I wouldnt even put it past myself to consider just leaving- at least to go see what the heck is going on. Maybe when he got above deck he realized what was happening and seized the moment?

Either way, with BR 5- assuming that the coal bunker theory holds water (get it? holds water?!) and thats what caused the huge influx of water, I doubt the entire room would've filled up with water from a tiny gash (relatively) before the water from BR 6 made its way in somehow to help finish the flooding... I think about how the water would've reached BR 5 (then 4, then 3 etc), I read one gentlemen say the water made its way up the smoke uptake vents in BR 6, then spill over into BR 5 down through the boilers. They shut the boilers in 6 if im not mistaken, and im sure that those doors are made to be pretty air tight since the entire point of closing them is to suffocate the fire inside, so I wonder how fast they could've filled, how fast the water could've entered the boilers, risen in the smoke uptake vents, then spill down into 5s boilers, and leak out of the closed "air tight" boilers to fill up the boiler room. Would this have filled up BR 5 before the water came in from the Scotland Road entrance? Not to mention, im sure when water filled up F deck that there wasn't water finding its way down through the floor into boiler rooms, but then again, that would've been noticed too.

I only read one time that right after the collision there was water coming through the floors on BR 4... is this correct? So that means the ice berg only made contact with the forwardmost part of BR5 (coal bunker), then again somewhere along BR 4? The damage would also have occurred lower than it did anywhere else because it was reported being 2 feet above the floor in other places, but in BR 4 they only saw water coming in through the floor. Interesting.

I daydream about a computer simulation that allows you to see the sinking in real time with real water physics. I know about Honor and Glory but they haven't even finished modeling the ship yet which should be the easiest part of the game....itll be many more years before they implement the voiced NPCs and missions let alone realistic water physics. Plus theyre also making the city Titanic departed from too I guess (WHY?!?! Finish the ship first please!) ? Anyway.... I imagine itll just be the model ship being lowered into a body of water and the water just clips through walls anyway. Their "Titanic real time sinking" videos are not made with their game contrary to popular belief, they do use interiors from their game, but its just a premade animation, not their actual ship sinking in game. I donated on their second fundraiser, kept up with their dev blogs for about a year and finally gave up. I would have never donated if I knew it was going to a product I wouldn't see for over 10 years. So I don't even think about them anymore, I do use Sinking Simulator, its a free 2d engine you can get on Steam....but its 2d so the realistic sinking isn't possible.
Whenever I use it I see BR 5 fill up, then water stops flowing aft for a long time. All water that enters the ship just flows forward. The bow goes under water, the front of the ship is filling up, but water hasn't gone beyond the grand staircase. It isn't until the bow goes under water that water finally starts going aft. It just looks, not right...… Anyway, now im just ranting. wow.

As I said, any insight you guys might have would be greatly appreciated. I sincerely appreciate your time. I know I am ignorant, and that's why Im here, so I don't want to come off as thinking Im some expert or anything.
Thank you so much for reading and I look forward to chatting with everyone!
 
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TimTurner

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Dec 11, 2012
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Barret was standing on the starboard side of BR 6 when the iceberg opened up the hull. He would have been doused by ice water at least up to thigh level spurting in with a pretty decent pressure. He's also working in a steam boiler room, which if you've never done that isn't for the feint of heart. After an all stop order in the middle of the ocean (there's no reason for an all-stop in the middle of the ocean except for bad bad things), Barret is in the bottom of a ship and has a few firehoses worth of ice seawater sprayed onto him - you can bet your socks he ran outta there as fast as he could. The engineer standing with him ran too, and I'll bet a few other folks.

If ice water sprays onto boiling hot steel, it will instantly flash to steam. Steam takes up 1000 times more space than liquid water, so it expands - this is the dreaded "boiler explosion" everyone is always talking about. A boiling-hot steel plate exposed to frigid seawater is liable to crack, releasing more steam, burning coals, hot water. You do not want to be there when this happens. If steam is hot enough and high pressure enough, a steam leak can actually be invisible. Such a steam leak is found with a broomstick - because it will cut the broomstick in half instead of you. If you see an injured man missing a limb or a head in a steam room, you dont go stand over him because you'll be cut in half, too. All the steam spaces on the Titanic open up above to the sky because if a steam pipe outright ruptures it will quickly fill the space and broil everyone to death - so you want to give as much space for that steam to get out of there as possible.

From Beauchamp's reaction, I'll bet he was at least centerline or perhaps port. If the water was spraying directly onto the boiler, then bouncing onto Barret, there's a remote chance that Beauchamp didn't actually see the water entering the ship. This would explain their different reactions.

When considering if Barrow left because of cowardice, remember the engineer he was talking to at the time ran with him, and then Barrow stood around in BR 5 for about 10 minutes with that engineer and the stokers of BR5, while water was pouring into the BR5 forward bunker before Barret tries to climb back into BR6. By that time, even Beauchamp had left.

If the bulkhead gave way, it would have made a heck of a sound and all that water still had to flow through the bunker doors, of which there were 4. So failed bulkhead and failed bunker door will be similar initial flow rates. Only water pouring over the bulkhead would create a larger initial wave.

I've started to correlate the testimony of all witnesses, but I've postponed that exhaustive work indefinitely. I've been building a high resolution voxel Titanic model in my own voxel engine which, in theory, could be used to model a fairly realistic cell-based flooding model, but that isn't my primary focus with it and my time isnt infinite. It also wouldn't simulate the stresses and structural failures necessary to the late-stage sinking.
 

TimTurner

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Dec 11, 2012
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Ive read Halpern's paper, and I've been reading up on the boiler rooms. He lays out a pretty good case. I think there are some potential water sources he didn't directly deal with.

1. The coal chutes. They're not often thought about, and usually assumed to have held watertight, but there's a possibility that the lead-sealed hatches used to coal the Titanic in BR 4 were not fully sealed. If the hatches on F Deck leaked, water would run down into the coal bunkers, and out into the boiler rooms.

2. Penetration failure. There were penetrations in the watertight bulkheads for various pipes and other systems. We generally assume that these held - but what if they didn't? It is a possibility that various systems leaked either before or after the iceberg collision. Probably not a huge source of water in any event.

There may be other possible sources, but the water in BR 4 is certainly curious.
 

Rob Lawes

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Jun 13, 2012
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One of the issues I have with flooding rates and the flow of water is placing the timing of Stewards Ray and Wheat's description of water on E deck in conjunction with the evacuation of boiler room 5.

Wheat sees water running along E deck and down the stairwell onto F Deck at the foot of the grand staircase but says the port side (Scotland Road) is dry. This suggests to me that the ship still has its starboard list as was observed in the early stages of the flooding.

Leading Stoker Barrett escapes from boiler room 5 exiting on to E Deck forward of the emergency door leading into the first class companion way. He says he sees a little water forward on E Deck.

This has to be before Steward Ray sees water level with the emergency door and at the same point on the opposite side of the stairs on E Deck since Ray claims he only just managed to get off E deck and into the stairwell.

At this point the ship must be on an even keel or rolling towards the port list.

At some point after Barrett but before Ray, Steward Johnson sees water just getting up to the companion way in E deck when he goes to his cabin to fetch a coat.

So if I was to put the testimony in order it would be:

Wheat
Barrett
Johnson
Ray

I have seen several time lines that disagree with this.

To my mind, when Wheat saw water coming up the first class corridor on E Deck it would also mean that water would be topping over the lip of the uptakes between the boilers in rooms 5 and 6 which would correspond with Barrett's "rush of green water" and evacuation on to E deck.
 
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Thomas C.

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Sep 6, 2017
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Below is my chronology of main events taking place inside the ship.

11:40 Titanic collides with an iceberg.
11:46 The ship is listing 5° to starboard. Barrett returns to boiler room 6 to find 8ft of water in it.
11:52 Carpenter informs Poingdestre that there is 7ft of water in hold 1.
11:53 Boxhall finds water 2ft from the G deck in hold 3.
11:55 What sees water start covering G deck in hold 3.
11:58 Symons sees water start covering G deck in hold 1. [This water comes from hold 2 not hold 1]
12:02 Lee sees water halfway to F deck in hold 1.
12:02 Chambers observes water 2 ft from F deck in hold 3.
12:10 Annie Robinson finds water halfway to E deck in hold 3.
12:10 Pitman sees water halfway to E deck in hold 1.

After this the ship actually slowed sinking and water inside was rising slower.

About C deck. When water reached forward B deck promenade it was already about 2:10, so the ship was sinking very quickly. Water was, as you said flooding C deck from above but more rapidly than just trickling.

Here are some very brilliant articles about events inside the ship during sinking, which will help you.





 

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