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Mike Herbold

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Feb 13, 2001
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The Titanic Commutator Volume 12, Number 4, 1988 had the following cutout ballot in the Supplement section:

The CALIFORNIAN controversy continues and Mr. Kalman Tanito of Finland believes we ought to take a poll of the members to get the overall view on this subject.
We are now giving YOU, the member, a chance to decide once and for all....

Do You Think the British Board of Trade and the United States Senate should be petitioned to re-open the 1912 CALIFORNIAN inquiry to clear the name of Captain Stanley Lord?

Yes___________________ No_________________

Please complete the the enclosed ballot and mail to T.H.S. headquarters before April 15th 1989 and we will publish the results in the summer (Volume 13, #2) 1989 edition of the TITANIC COMMUTATOR.

# # # # #

I looked through all the 1989 and 1990 Commutators (unfortunately I don't have the supplements for these issues) and could never find the results of that poll. Does anybody have that information?
 

George Behe

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Hi, Mike!

I suspect that not enough THS members took the time to respond to the poll to make it worthwhile to publish the results. However, the instant nature of email means that a similar poll here on ET might be an interesting idea. (If such a poll is taken, though, it might be wise for each member to submit his/her name along with his/her own ballot in order to sidestep the possibility of 50 anonymous ballots being cast by a single member.)

Mike, do you (or any other ET members) feel like initiating a new thread devoted to this subject and overseeing the results?

Take care, my friend.

All my best,

George
 
Dec 7, 2000
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I've never heard of the MAIB report. What is it? Also, if we are to take this poll, I fear that another discussion will start. We already have quite a few Californian discussions, and if this poll is to take place, I think it would be best if it were simply a yes or no answer.
 
Jan 21, 2001
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Daniel:

The MAIB report was the 1992 re-appraisal, conducted by the Marine Accident Investigation Board in England. I believe you can purchase a copy from Amazon.com.

If you do set up a poll, you will want to make sure, as George pointed out, that neither side can stuff the ballot box with anonymous votes. Some years ago, one of the Titanic email lists conducted a similar poll, but it was a closed list and to vote, you had to have an email address that the list-server would recognize. The results of that poll came down something like 90% in agreement with the 1912 findings, a few points who weren't certain, and a few who disagreed with the original inquiries. I don't remember how many actually participated in the poll, but I believe it was somewhere just under 100 responses, out of something like 400 members.

Maybe someone else on this site remembers that poll, too?

Dave Billnitzer
 
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Gavin Murphy

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Geoff,

Surely you know who Stanley Lord was. He's Walter Lord's brother!

Gavin
 

Tracy Smith

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No, he's Walter's Daddy!
proud.gif
 
Sep 20, 2000
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Geoff: There appears to be massive historical confusion about this chap! Online searches for "Lord, Stanley" yield a bewildering array of potential answers. Here's just one example:

Lord Stanley [of Alderley] (1827-1903): diplomat, traveller, writer, land-owner, and `orientalist`. Spoke `most` European languages as well as Arabic, Turkish, Persian and Chinese. Converted to Islam and was buried in the grounds of his estate by the Imam of the Turkish Embassy in London.

Of course that one would be a bit old (and presumably too deceased) for the captaincy of the SS Californian. But I suppose it's possible; it would explain the lack of response. }:^)

Of course that's just the tip of the iceberg!

There's also a very notable "Lord, Stanley" who created a world-renowned prize -- "Stanley's Cup" -- for ice hockey. This one, I think, has a better chance of being our man, the affinity for ice having been duly noted. (Of course, that *would* imply that he actually lived in Canada, but of course the good Captain *was* noted for a few imaginative fictions in his day.) ;^)

The hunt continues!
 
Aug 14, 2002
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I see the poll idea has withered. As a mythical judge has often been quoted; "Bring on the next guilty s.o.b. for a fair, impartial trial"
 

Noel F. Jones

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I see the poll idea has withered. As a mythical judge has often been quoted; "Bring on the next guilty s.o.b. for a fair, impartial trial"

I would have put this question in a more pertinent manner, viz.:

To which shipmaster would you entrust your family for a spring passage across the north Atlantic?

Would it be Capt. Smith, Capt.Rostron or Capt.Lord?

Noel
 

Don Tweed

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Mar 30, 2006
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This is a loaded question and hard to answer.
But I have to go with Lord also.
And here are my reasons.
Of the three Cptns. that fateful night, one showed real caution by stopping before the icefield and informing ships in his vicinity of the peril.
That was Lord.
Rostron, whom I admire for his quick action and attention to detail, did endanger crew and passengers with his choice, though with hindsight being 20-20, it was the correct one.
Smith, well we all know the particulars that come into play.
Safety for my family? Cptn. Lord chose correctly though villafied through history for his choice.
The pressures on Lord that night was not the same for Smith. Nobody had a care for the Californian that night and her destination. It was only after the fact that she came into play.
Just one persons thought, Don
 
Sep 20, 2000
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I would have put this question in a more pertinent manner, viz.:
To which shipmaster would you entrust your family for a spring passage across the north Atlantic?


Irrelevent and immaterial. Case dismissed. Next?
 

Don Tweed

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Irrelevent! Immaterial!
This is a discussion board, we dismiss nothing.
C'mon John!, you must have an opinion.
-Don
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Sep 20, 2000
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Hi, Don: Sorry, couldn't help myself. (The quasi-legal framework was just too irresistable.) ;-)

But seriously, it really *is* irrelevant to Lord's case whether or not he was a capable "bus driver". It's probably far more germane (and not terribly, at that) to question whether you'd favor being a pedestrian in his path than to ponder the relative merits of being a passenger aboard his vehicle. There's a whole different set of criteria involved.

Cheers,
John
 

Don Tweed

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Well said.
It is a loaded question. And hard to decypher.
The whole idea of trying to figure out the mindset of the day can be a moot point.
The fun is trying!
Respectfully, Don
 

Dave Gittins

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It depends on what they commanded. Had Lord been doing 26 knots on Mauretania he could have been in big bother if he'd kept going till he saw ice, especially if he'd been on the New York track.

Rostron had the right idea originally. He got the latest information on ice from Cunard and went well south of it. On the other hand, if he'd gone to the rescue on Mauretania he'd quite likely have hit something big and white.

Of those involved, I'd go for Captain Moore of Mount Temple. He wisely changed course when ice was reported and didn't take excessve risks on his rescue mission. Then again, what if he'd had Mauretania?
 

Noel F. Jones

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"It's probably far more germane .... to question whether you'd favor being a pedestrian in his path than to ponder the relative merits of being a passenger aboard his vehicle."

By all means correct me if I'm wrong but I don't recall Capt.Lord ever running down another vessel either during his long career in command.

Having disposed of that, perhaps you might now reconsider trying to answer the posed question without further prevarication.

Noel
 
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