Scarborough

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Jan 24, 2021
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Canada
I've been a Titanic fanatic since 1986, and so am at once frustrated and intrigued by the following question. I am looking for a rivet pattern around the registration lettering on the counter. I've been looking at photos of Olympic/Hawke damage to form a best guess as to what the pattern might have been toward the stern, and found that the rivets there are either barely visible or outright impossible to discern. (why are they so visible amidships, and not so astern?) No photos of the famous 1:48 model yield any clues. Thanks in advance.
 
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Thomas Krom

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Nov 22, 2017
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Good day to you,


Two large holes were created during the collision, with a distance of an estimated 86 feet away of the stern of the ship Frame 113 was penetrated by the bow of the HMS Hawke and created a triangular hole above the waterline on D-deck, which was an estimated 12 feet in length. The shell plating was crushed and bent inwards for about 8 feet inside of her. The beams, deck plating and frames in vicinity was broken en the wooden paneling of the third class staterooms, among with the furniture, were sadly damaged as well. The litosilo in the third class corridors sadly was damaged beyond repair as well.

The watertight compartment O (The 15th compartment, which featured the propeller shafts and was the last accessible compartment) was penetrated by the armed bow of the Hawke and watertight compartment N (The 14th compartment, the propeller shafts went trough here as well) was flooded with an estimated 300 to 400 tons of water, the watertight door between compartment N and O was closed automatically as it was designed to do so in this kind of stations.

The tail shaft of the starboard propeller was damaged as well, among with the plating around the starboard shaft for an estimated distance of 12 to 14 feet. The blades of the starboard propeller was broken as well.

I hope this might help.

Yours sincerly,

Thomas
 

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Mike Spooner

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Sep 21, 2017
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Good day Thomas,
I have two questions
1. Do you know how the thick wooden boards were fasten to the hull plates?
2. What was the purpose of the pipe sticking out?
 

Thomas Krom

Member
Nov 22, 2017
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108
Good day to you Mr. Spooner,

1 I would estimate between 2 to 3 inches in thickness.
2 A large eyeplate of mooring cleat was located there before the collision, the pipe was meant as a temporarily replacement for that.

I hope this may helps you.

Yours sincerely,

Thomas
 

Mike Spooner

Member
Sep 21, 2017
968
190
88
Good day to you Mr. Spooner,


1 I would estimate between 2 to 3 inches in thickness.
2 A large eyeplate of mooring cleat was located there before the collision, the pipe was meant as a temporarily replacement for that.


I hope this may helps you.


Yours sincerely,


Thomas
Thanks for the reply. Yes I have seen the wood timbers were 4" thick. However how they where fasten on to the hull plates I am not too sure. I can only take a guest the rivet heads were grind off and punched through, where coach bolts are used!
Does that sound feasible?
 

Scarborough

Member
Jan 24, 2021
6
1
3
Canada
Good day to you,


Two large holes were created during the collision, with a distance of an estimated 86 feet away of the stern of the ship Frame 113 was penetrated by the bow of the HMS Hawke and created a triangular hole above the waterline on D-deck, which was an estimated 12 feet in length. The shell plating was crushed and bent inwards for about 8 feet inside of her. The beams, deck plating and frames in vicinity was broken en the wooden paneling of the third class staterooms, among with the furniture, were sadly damaged as well. The litosilo in the third class corridors sadly was damaged beyond repair as well.

The watertight compartment O (The 15th compartment, which featured the propeller shafts and was the last accessible compartment) was penetrated by the armed bow of the Hawke and watertight compartment N (The 14th compartment, the propeller shafts went trough here as well) was flooded with an estimated 300 to 400 tons of water, the watertight door between compartment N and O was closed automatically as it was designed to do so in this kind of stations.

The tail shaft of the starboard propeller was damaged as well, among with the plating around the starboard shaft for an estimated distance of 12 to 14 feet. The blades of the starboard propeller was broken as well.

I hope this might help.

Yours sincerly,

Thomas
Thomas, do you have any idea why the rivets, on the outboard side of this part of the ship, seem to be flush with the plates, whereas in the middle area of the hull the rivet head is fully hemispherical, and not flush with the plates?
 

Mike Spooner

Member
Sep 21, 2017
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88
If one looks at the two photos, the inner section timbers look like a black tar has been used as a sealer. If coach bolts had been used there is no sign of the nuts and washers. Therefore I can only think large wood screws where used. As to get a smooth surface external over the rivet heads the timbers were count bored. And again for the external timbers black tar was used as a sealer to. As for the hole below the water line. Closed the WTB and just leave that section flooded
Olympic inner repairs.JPG
Olympic repair SOT.JPG
 

Scarborough

Member
Jan 24, 2021
6
1
3
Canada
If one looks at the two photos, the inner section timbers look like a black tar has been used as a sealer. If coach bolts had been used there is no sign of the nuts and washers. Therefore I can only think large wood screws where used. As to get a smooth surface external over the rivet heads the timbers were count bored. And again for the external timbers black tar was used as a sealer to. As for the hole below the water line. Closed the WTB and just leave that section floodedView attachment 75702View attachment 75703
Thanks Mike. When you say count bored, are you referring to the hull plates? And - forgive my ignorance - does that mean the rivet head would sit just within the plate? A bit like a countersunk screw?
 

Mike Spooner

Member
Sep 21, 2017
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88
Thanks Mike. When you say count bored, are you referring to the hull plates? And - forgive my ignorance - does that mean the rivet head would sit just within the plate? A bit like a countersunk screw?
As the wooden timbers would be in contact with the rivet heads, counter bore the 4" timber so the rivet heads would be in the counter bores. Giving a flat surface against the ship hull plates with plenty dollops of tar between the timbers and hull plates.
See you are from Scarborough and I had Aunties and Uncles living there in the past. I was just wandering if you have come across any information or plate of Mr Sir Edward Harland from H&W?
 

Scarborough

Member
Jan 24, 2021
6
1
3
Canada
As the wooden timbers would be in contact with the rivet heads, counter bore the 4" timber so the rivet heads would be in the counter bores. Giving a flat surface against the ship hull plates with plenty dollops of tar between the timbers and hull plates.
See you are from Scarborough and I had Aunties and Uncles living there in the past. I was just wandering if you have come across any information or plate of Mr Sir Edward Harland from H&W?
Oh I see. I'm more interested in the rivets on the exterior of the hull on all Olympic class ships. Thanks anyway.

I hail from Scarborough in Canada, not England.
 

Mike Spooner

Member
Sep 21, 2017
968
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88
Oh I see. I'm more interested in the rivets on the exterior of the hull on all Olympic class ships. Thanks anyway.

I hail from Scarborough in Canada, not England.
I apologise thinking you where from England. I forgot there was a Scarborough in Canada near Toronto. I have spent 5 years living in Canada years ago now in Montreal and Edmonton.
Counter sinking the timbers would do a similar job as counter bore to clear the the rivet heads. O though I think counter bore is less in depth and certainty had the tooling equipment to do the job in those days.
 

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