Stockholm Photograph


Jim Kalafus

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Here is a snapshot I found showing the Stockholm in St. Georges Harbor Bermuda, date stamped April 1959 and bearing the inscription "Same boat that smashed into the Andrea Doria in 1957" on the reverse. I like the perspective, which seemingly shows the bow of another liner (but not the Cristoforo Colombo) bearing down on the port side equivalent of the Andrea Doria collison area- it is probably one of the Furness ships.
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Joshua Gulch

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Lower down in this folder is a thread "Whatever Became of The Stockholm?" (https://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/discus/messages/6937/6845.html?995921667) I happened to reread the posts and wondered if Stockholm's current status had changed. Lo and behold it had. I would post this on the old thread, but it's been archived and new posts can't be added.

Stockholm update:
According to TGOL's website, the former Stockholm, five times renamed and sailing for the Club Valtur as Valtur Prima from 1999. Nearly unrecognizable from a 1992 refit, the ship sailed Caribbean ports until the September 11th situation forced her sailings to be canceled, following which Stockholm/Valtur Prima was laid up. Last July, the vessel was sold and renamed once again. Still cruising from Havana, she is named Caribe and is sailing under Festival Cruises.

I managed to find a webpage featuring her current information: http://www.cruiseserver.net/travelpage/ships/fe_caribe.asp

Information and deckplans of Valtur Prima can still be found at the Cruise Havana website: http://cruisehavana.com/Main_Page.html (at the top)

TGOL's page on the ship: http://www.greatoceanliners.net/stockholm3.html

Hard to believe by looking at Caribe that she's the same vessel that rammed Andrea Doria almost 47 years ago.

Josh.
 

Jim Kalafus

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Which brings up a point which has been nagging me since, roughly, 1980. In Saved, and also I think Collision at Sea, it is recounted that a large portion of Stockholm's damaged bow broke off and sank after the Andrea Doria had foundered. I've not seen any photos of the Stockholm taken at the disaster site showing her with the (alleged) 60 extra feet of bow wreckage attached- all of the familiar photos were taken well after sunrise, and after the severely damaged area had detached. Are there any early morning shots of Stockholm out there?
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Dec 2, 2000
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>>Are there any early morning shots of Stockholm out there?<<

Not that I'm aware of...which may well mean they're in private hands. The only photos I've seen were of the Stockholm steaming back towards New York with the bow looking exactly as you see it in that photo.
 

Jim Kalafus

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Which is strange. The timing of the collapse of the bow can probably be pinned down by the times on the Coast Guard telegrams relating to the attempted recovery of Andrea Doria passenger Jeanette Carlin's body. Mrs.Carlin, like Linda Morgan, initially survived being thrown from one ship to the other, but was fatally injured and died before help arrived- Linda could hear her for a time. Her body was imbedded in the debris and came clear when the supposed 60 foot chunk of bow fell into the ocean. Crewmen from the Legare were sent to recover it, but found only sharks. I am hazy on the times involved, but know from eyewitness accopunts, that it occurred after sunrise. Can't believe that not a single news plane or Coastguardsman photographed Stockholm before 10:00 AM, but the lack of published photos seems to indicate that this is the case.
 
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They may have been more interested in the Andrea Doria. After all, she was the ship that was sinking and threatening to take some of her passnegers with her. The one the busted nose but otherwise not in trouble? Ick! Not juicy enough for the readers. At least that seems to be the mentality at work here.

I wonder if anybody has ever searched for that bow section from the Stockholm. Even given the problems of drift, the location where all this happened is a matter of record and the actual location of the Doria...eh, what's left of her...could be used as a baseline datum to start from.
 

Jim Kalafus

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Finding the bow section should not be too difficult
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During the course of the accident, the Stockholm's anchors released and tethered her, more or less, at the collision site. Post sinking, an effort was made to cut through the chains, and the Stockholm was being being gently "rocked" forwards and backwards in the same way that one uses "drive" and "reverse" to free a stuck car (or so say the accounts, although I do not know, realistically, how helpful that manouver would be in freeing a damaged ship from several hundred feet of chain) when the damaged bow fell off. Of course, given the dangers of diving the desirable Andrea Doria, it is not likely that any effort has been, or will be, expended to find a 60 foot chunk of wrecked bow although it would be interesting to see it.

Thre is at least one roll of film shot ABOARD Andrea Doria during the disaster, surviving in the hands of the family which shot it. Photos taken aboard Ile de France are common, as far as disaster photos go. Aside from a few pre-collision shots in Desperate Hours, I've never seen, or located, any taken aboard Stockholm but am sure that they must exist, somewhere. Probably the best home of seeing what the bow looked like while still "intact" would be to find these shots.
 
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>>although I do not know, realistically, how helpful that manouver would be in freeing a damaged ship from several hundred feet of chain) when the damaged bow fell off.<<

Well, since the chain locker would be located fairly well forward, I can see how if that section fell off, it would take the chains with it to the bottom. I'm sure the photos you mentioned exist, and I'd like to see them. For all that was going on, there were quite a few shutterbugs active on the weatherdecks. It would be strange if some post collision photos with the bow still attatched didn't exist. The Stockholm was an active participant in the rescue operations and anchored to the bottom, it's not as if she could go anywhere until that load had been shed.

By chance did you see the revised work Ken Marschall did with his Andrea Doria painting on Deep Sea Detectives? It showcases some appalling deterioration since it was first done. A large chunk of the superstructure has literally fallen away to the seabed. Divers who go down there frequently report the ship as being a noisy wreck. Diving on her is certainly no game for the faint of heart.
 
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Jim

There Are Photos Of The Bow W/ Alleged 60 ft Still attached in "Out Of The Fog" by Alot Mattsson, One of the Most Controversial Books on the Subject. The Book Also Contains Text Largely based on Interviews w/ Carstens, Which Might Help Answer the Question of How The 60 ft Portion became detached. I Have Read The book, But Do Not Wish To Spoil for Anyone who wishes to read it, unless the majority in the thread would like me to share the Authors Opinion.
 

Jim Kalafus

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Have not seen the amended painting. Have several acquaintences who dive A.D. and so have access to many first hand accounts of the condition of the wreck. Also have a small collection of items recovered from aboard - there is one thing I would like to see recovered, if not for myself but for posterity. Cabin class passenger Mary Urban was the widow of designer and architect Joseph Urban (my favorite- spanned the art nouveau and art deco periods) who had spent the previous months in Europe doing some final "tightening" research for her biography of Joseph. Her manuscript, notes, and some primary research material were left aboard the ship and lost. I've not been able to determine if this collection was stored in a "carry on" in her cabin- in which case it may still survive and be recoverable, or if it was carried in a trunk or trunks- in which case it was with the several hundred other cabin class trunks and suitcases waiting to be removed from the promenade deck and good luck finding it.
 
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>>Have not seen the amended painting.<<

Ach...a pity. Perhaps you can get a copy of Deep Sea Detectives from The History Channel. It's quite a series and unlike a lot of what you see on The History Channel, very well done overall.

>>and good luck finding it.<<

Oh you got that right! Shucks, good luck even getting to it! The wreck is an unholy mess now and getting worse all the time. Sure would be nice to see those research notes and materials recovered though. Where was Mrs. Urban's cabin located? If it's not part of what's fallen into the mud, there might be a chance of checking it out.
 

Jim Kalafus

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The cabin class accommodations were on A and B deck inside the hull, and so have not yet collapsed. I am not sure if Mary Urban's cabin number was ever published, 'though it may be preserved in her family papers somewhere. Joseph's best known surviving work is the New School for Social Research in NYC, and rather restrained in comparison to much of what he created elsewhere.....his 'best' building work, unfortunately, was about as lavish and flamboyant as post WW1 architecture got, and tended to be removed as 'vulgar' and 'dated' in the immediate post WW2 years. So, on a strictly 'personal curiosity' level, I would like to see what Mary was carrying with her.

'Though I missed the painting, I have seen stills and video of the damage, and am familiar with the extent to which it has progressed.

Then only Doria mystery I would like to see resolved- and at this point it can't be, alas- is whether or not the three women in A-230 were still alive and trapped when the ship sank.
 
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Then there just might be a chance. If somebody's going to do something, I would think it would have to be attempted within the next few years. As for the three women you mentioned, considering the outcome, I would hope that they were no longer alive when the ship took them to the bottom.
 

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