Stockholm still sailing now MV Athena


TOWER3

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The MV Astoria (Stockholm), which is being withdrawn from the Cruise & Maritime Voyages fleet this year should be preserved as a hotel and museum ship rather than scrapped and restored to her 1956 appearance. The ship is significant because it collided with and led to the sinking of the Andrea Doria, is the second oldest passenger ship in active service, the only SAL ship built in Sweden, and the last surviving former ship in the Swedish American Line fleet. Possible locations for preserving the ship include Gothenburg, Stockholm, and Nantucket.
 

Dave Gittins

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I have mixed views on this. Many want to save old ships, but few want to pay for them. They can be a very expensive way of building a hotel.

The other thing is that the ship as she stands is very little like the ship that sank Andrea Doria. In 2010 I was able to go right alongside her in my rubber duck and check her out. Her hull is now all welded and her superstructure is nothing like it was originally. The boats and davits are totally different. The Italians added the sponsons to the stern. They are meant to improve stability. As built, Stockholm was a a very poor ship, with a bad reputation for rolling. A passenger was killed by one of her wilder efforts. Stabilisers were added and helped a bit. As a bonus, the sponsons are said to improve the flow around the stern and improve fuel economy. It's a bad sign that she has been through so many names and owners.

If you want an old ship, we have Doulos Phos safely preserved as a hotel in Indonesia. She looks very good, but again, she's not much like her original form, when she was a freighter. I was on board her many years ago and she was much hacked about. They'd just added some new machinery and to get it in they simply cut a big hole in one side and later welded it up.

If I had a fantasy, it would be to see SS United States safely preserved in good condition. She's still the fastest real liner ever built.
 
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PRR5406

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There's really no point in saving this tired, old, ship. It's exceptionally expensive to maintain a dead ship and what you see today is essentially not the "Stockholm". The history of the accident is only, perhaps, in the fabric of the inner-most girders or flooring. Passed from owner to owner, including the East German government, always gutted and rebuilt in a new idealogy or style. Even her replacement bow was completely amputated and replaced. If her lifeboats are original, and I doubt it, save those. Maybe her wheel?
Goodbye, old girl. Valhalla awaits you.
 
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TOWER3

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I have mixed views on this. Many want to save old ships, but few want to pay for them. They can be a very expensive way of building a hotel.

The other thing is that the ship as she stands is very little like the ship that sank Andrea Doria. In 2010 I was able to go right alongside her in my rubber duck and check her out. Her hull is now all welded and her superstructure is nothing like it was originally. The boats and davits are totally different. The Italians added the sponsons to the stern. They are meant to improve stability. As built, Stockholm was a a very poor ship, with a bad reputation for rolling. A passenger was killed by one of her wilder efforts. Stabilisers were added and helped a bit. As a bonus, the sponsons are said to improve the flow around the stern and improve fuel economy. It's a bad sign that she has been through so many names and owners.

If you want an old ship, we have Doulos Phos safely preserved as a hotel in Indonesia. She looks very good, but again, she's not much like her original form, when she was a freighter. I was on board her many years ago and she was much hacked about. They'd just added some new machinery and to get it in they simply cut a big hole in one side and later welded it up.

If I had a fantasy, it would be to see SS United States safely preserved in good condition. She's still the fastest real liner ever built.
What does rhe MV Doulos have going for it that the Astoria does not have.
 

Arun Vajpey

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The MV Astoria (Stockholm), which is being withdrawn from the Cruise & Maritime Voyages fleet this year should be preserved as a hotel and museum ship rather than scrapped and restored to her 1956 appearance. The ship is significant because it collided with and led to the sinking of the Andrea Doria, is the second oldest passenger ship in active service, the only SAL ship built in Sweden, and the last surviving former ship in the Swedish American Line fleet. Possible locations for preserving the ship include Gothenburg, Stockholm, and Nantucket.
The (former) Stockholm certainly has a history as being part of the World's first radar assisted collision. I agree that it should be preserved in some way but I don't agree about the idea of 'restoration to its post-crash 1956 appearance. Perhaps the Swedish government might be interested in buying it out and placing it as a museum piece.
 

TOWER3

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I also think that Johnny Sid, who preserved the MV Bore and tried to save Kungsholm (1966) should work on preserving the Stockholm (1948). I felt that the should be restored to what it was like in 1956 before the collision with the Andrea Doria.
 

Dave Gittins

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Arun, Doulos has nothing much going for her, except that she dates from 1914. She was originally a freighter but was made into a real liner, complete with swimming pool. Like Astoria, she's been hacked about until little original remains.
 

PRR5406

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I'm certain the Swedish government wants nothing to do with such a controversial artifact. As a museum piece, restore the bridge to its old configuration and place it in a maritime academy. Basically, the "Stockholm" remains a symbol of poor navigation, a cover-up, and the terribly gory deaths of people both in the bow and on the "Doria". I wouldn't mind owning a small piece of the original ship, but really, the "Stockholm" has been gone for decades.
I find it odd, the "Andrea Doria" remains the most intact of all the Italian Line vessels!
 

TOWER3

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The (former) Stockholm certainly has a history as being part of the World's first radar assisted collision. I agree that it should be preserved in some way but I don't agree about the idea of 'restoration to its post-crash 1956 appearance. Perhaps the Swedish government might be interested in buying it out and placing it as a museum piece.
In addition to Gothenburg, Stockholm, and Nantucket, New York City and Rostock might be good places to preserve the MV Astoria.
 

Arun Vajpey

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Basically, the "Stockholm" remains a symbol of poor navigation, a cover-up, and the terribly gory deaths of people both in the bow and on the "Doria".
True, but poor navigation on whose part? While it is possible that Carstens-Johannsen on the Stockholm's bridge underestimated the distance between the two approaching ships, not many now believe the theory that Stockholm's radar settings were wrong. Moreover, while they were rapidly approaching the fog bank that the Andrea Doria was in, the Stockholm itself had not yet encountered any fog; this explains why they did not sound their own fog horn.

Captain Calamai on the Andrea Doria on the other hand, was still bowling his ship along at almost 22 knots through fog. The ship's officers had not followed proper radar procedures or used the plotting equipment available in the chartroom adjacent to the bridge of their ship to plot and then calculate the course, position and speed of the other (approaching) ship. Thus, they failed to realize Stockholm's speed and course. When the collision course became apparent, Calamai ordered a 4-degree port turn instead of the established SOP of turning hard to starboard and pass the approaching ship port to port, thus effectively steering his ship into the path of the oncoming Stockholm.

Also, I understand that Italian maritime laws specified that empty fuel tanks must be pumped with seawater to provide ballast, something that Calamai had not ordered. Therefore, when the starboard tanks flooded after the collision, the air-filled port tanks provided unwanted excessive buoyancy, contributing to the heavy list and making the port lifeboats practically unusable.
 

TOWER3

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Arun, Doulos has nothing much going for her, except that she dates from 1914. She was originally a freighter but was made into a real liner, complete with swimming pool. Like Astoria, she's been hacked about until little original remains.
That is why I see the MV Astoria being possibly preserved.
 

PRR5406

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The technical aspects of the collision seem to sharpen depending on which ship's bridge one is standing upon. Most accepted evidence exonerates Calamai and his officers. Carstens Johannson has very little backing viewpoint. I won't argue it.
 

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