STOKER - JAMES CRIMMINS - SURVIVOR

[Crimmins lady]

James was my great uncle. He survived. He returned to Southampton, without being asked any questions at the enquiry, and resumed his work on the sea. As it happens he survived another sea disaster in WW2. He died - I believe from smoke and dust inhalation, almost in obscurity, and very lonely. He felt guilty for the rest of the life for having survived and getting into one of the Titanic lifeboats, when so many perished. He told my Aunt what happened in the area he worked. Does anyone have any information about my uncle please. Thank you.

 

[Steven Christian]

If you haven't seen these already there is some info in them. Good luck on your search.

James Crimmins : Titanic Survivor

Titanic fireman James Crimmins was one of fourteen children born to his parents, ten of whom survived infancy...

www.encyclopedia-titanica.org

https://southamptonlocalhistorycentre.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/crimmins.pdf

Burnham author recounts family member's escape from The Titanic

Author recounts Titanic rescue Exclusive: A Burnham-On-Sea pensioner has this week published a new book recounting how one of his family members escaped from the sinking Titanic liner a century ago. Peter Crimmins, 78, has written 'Titanic: From One Extreme To The Other', which outlines how his...

www.burnham-on-sea.com

JAMES CRIMMINS titanic at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

 

[Crimmins lady]

Thank you Steven Christian for your response. I have seen all these articles and had a copy of my family member's (Peter Crimmins) booklet for some years.

 

[Steven Christian]

Your Welcome. Sounds like you got it covered. Sometimes theres not a lot of info out there especially from people long ago. Good luck on your continued search.

 

[Alex Clark]

Its always a pity to read how so many survivors died in poverty or alone in unfortunate circumstances. One an only imagine his thoughts on being shipwrecked a second time.
Just reading through the biography there, the date of death in the main text is 15th February, but in the stats below that, it says 16th February. I assume one is a mistype. Nevertheless, it’s good to see the lives of these people recorded for posterity.

 

[Porky]

James was my great uncle. He survived. He returned to Southampton, without being asked any questions at the enquiry, and resumed his work on the sea. As it happens he survived another sea disaster in WW2. He died - I believe from smoke and dust inhalation, almost in obscurity, and very lonely. He felt guilty for the rest of the life for having survived and getting into one of the Titanic lifeboats, when so many perished. He told my Aunt what happened in the area he worked. Does anyone have any information about my uncle please. Thank you.

Hello, I do not know if you have been in contact with my father Charles (James Crimmins' great nephew).

He has a whole host of family information concerning the Crimmins and Coogans.

If you would like me to facilitate contact I am happy to do so.

Regards, M.

 

[X----- X-------]

Unsure of the named person above who started this investigation will ever see my feedback of the Crimmins story. Depending your place of residence I would suggest if you are in the area nearer to Southampton then I would strongly advise to pay a visit at Southampton Archives.

Crimmins did actually make a request after the Seconf World War for a financail support from the Relief Fund, but his claim was simply refused - no reasons are confirmed for the refusal -- but Woolleey the Secreatry was instructed to write to an organsation to see if they were able to aid him with anything of a financail support.

I did write some years back but all of the documents were destroyed years ago, but it is a sad story as poor Crimmins didn't even get a look in, compared to the other Titanic Crew survivor who did get finiancial aid all because he was married and had children, compared to poor Crimmins who didn't. The Relief Fund hides many more of the sadden stories of the Crew Survivors, some were very successfully at getteing a weekly allownces others like Crimmins were simply refused.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

There are a few sources including Gunter Babler's Guide To The Crew Of The Titanic which confirm that Fireman James Crimmins was on duty on the 8pm to midnight shift that Sunday and so, his report about working on the boilers when the shock of the collision threw him off his feet is likely to be true. It appears on ET:

In a 1955 interview James recalled that he was working in the boiler rooms at the time of the collision and that the "bump" threw him from his feet.

He then worked with his colleagues to draw the fires from the boilers before being released and going to the boat deck. There he helped with loading some boats before being rescued himself "on the last boat", but it is unclear in which lifeboat Crimmins was actually rescued. It is generally thought that it was one of the aft starboard lifeboats where there were plenty of male survivors, including crew members. But according to Gavin Bell's report in Crimmins' ET bio, the Fireman reported that he was almost "unconscious" when he reached the lifeboat and after he got on board Madeline Astor gave him a garment to cover himself from the cold. So, there is the possibility that he was one of the swimmers to reach Lifeboat #4.

There are a few interesting articles about him on the web, including his service in both World Wars, including as a naval reserve in WW2 where he survived another ship sinking in 1943.

 

[Thomas Krom]

He then worked with his colleagues to draw the fires from the boilers before being released and going to the boat deck. There he helped with loading some boats before being rescued himself "on the last boat", but it is unclear in which lifeboat Crimmins was actually rescued. It is generally thought that it was one of the aft starboard lifeboats where there were plenty of male survivors, including crew members. But according to Gavin Bell's report in Crimmins' ET bio, the Fireman reported that he was almost "unconscious" when he reached the lifeboat and after he got on board Madeline Astor gave him a garment to cover himself from the cold. So, there is the possibility that he was one of the swimmers to reach Lifeboat #4.

A group of historians recently believed he might was the fireman who was transferred from lifeboat number 16 to lifeboat number 6.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

A group of historians recently believed he might was the fireman who was transferred from lifeboat number 16 to lifeboat number 6.

The issue with that supposition is that any crew member on Lifeboat #16 would have been one of those ordered to support the passengers and row. If Crimmins had been one of those, why would he have said things that suggested that he was rescued from the water? Also, since Lifeboat #16 was lowered around 01:20 am, other crew on it or even Crimmins himself would have said so.

Also, I doubt very much if he would have described Lifeboat #16 as the "last boat"

 

[Thomas Krom]

The issue with that supposition is that any crew member on Lifeboat #16 would have been one of those ordered to support the passengers and row. If Crimmins had been one of those, why would he have said things that suggested that he was rescued from the water? Also, since Lifeboat #16 was lowered around 01:20 am, other crew on it or even Crimmins himself would have said so.

Also, I doubt very much if he would have described Lifeboat #16 as the "last boat"

I agree as well. The fireman was described by Mrs. Brown as having a Cockney accent too, which leads me to believe that the fireman in question was born near London, Fireman Thomas Jubilee Mayzes (1887-1928) and Fireman Christopher Arthur Shulver/John Dilley (1883-1922) were both born around the area were a Cockney accent originated from and both gentlemen's lifeboat aren't certain.


However I am not too sure if Crimmins was one of the eight people saved from the water by lifeboat number 4, as the identity of all eight are believed to have been known. The unconscious man that was taken on-board has been generally been accepted as Trimmer Thomas Patrick Dillon (1879-1939).

 

[Arun Vajpey]

The part about being "unconscious" in his lifeboat might have been Crimmins' way of covering up for his Survivor's Guilt, something that many male survivors suffered from. I believe that he was on Lifeboat #11 or #15.

 

[Frampers]

CRIMMINSLADY. I met James shortly before he died. I visited him when he was in the Salvation Army hostel. As you rightly state he was a sad and lonely man

 

[Arun Vajpey]

A group of historians recently believed he might was the fireman who was transferred from lifeboat number 16 to lifeboat number 6.

Thomas, the renewal of this thread reminded me of the exchange we had about Crimmins last year. I re-read and thought about that linked entry about him in Bill Wormstedt's page and I think there is an intersting point made, which does suggest the possibility that Crimmins was indeed rescued in Lifeboat #16 and later transferred to Lifeboat #6. I meant to get back to you about it soon afterwards but somehow forgot at the time.

Did Lifeboat #16 pick-up a swimmer? There is not much evidence to support it, but it is believed that the McCoy sisters Agnes and Alice were placed in #16. Later Agnes McCoy gave an interview to the New York Herald and claimed that Alice and she helped to rescue their brother Bernard McCoy out of the water, although her account seemed a bit far-fetched. But Bernard McCoy also survived and some people believe that he was also on Lifeboat #16.

That made me wonder if Bernard McCoy had managed to sneak into Lifeboat #16 and was hidden by his sisters. If the lifeboat did pick-up a swimmer afterwards, it could have been Crimmins and that would fit in with his claim that he was almost unconscious when he reached it. As to Crimmins' allusion to it being the "last" lifeboat, I think Bill Wormstedt was suggesting that he meant the boat that was last in the line of port lifeboats, which #16 certainly was. And the McCoy sisters later could have "substituted" Crimmins with their brother Bernard McCoy to cover-up the fact that he had snuck into the lifeboat unnoticed while it was still being loaded. I agree with Bill's assumption that the bedraggled Crimmins mistook Molly Brown for Mrs Astor in the dark; Mrs Brown did confirm that she helped to cover the inadequately clad stoker who was transferred to her lifeboat with her stole.

The fireman was described by Mrs. Brown as having a Cockney accent

I am not sure how many times Molly Brown had visited London, but I doubt if she could have recognized a Cockney accent in those surroundings. It is also possible that - like you suggest in post #11 above that she was listening to one of the other firemen in the same lifeboat.