Survivors' post traumatic stress syndrome/suicides

J

Jan C. Nielsen

Member
It strikes me that a fair number of survivors of the Titanic's sinking committed suicide, in years later. Other surivors seemed to have developed a psychosis about it. I've read accounts of several survivors who never talked about the Titanic for the rest of their lives (persons, in addition to, B. Ismay). I can think, offhand, of three who committed suicide, Frederick Fleet, Jack Thayer, and Washington Dodge. Does anyone know of others? Do you think that the suicides are related to the Titanic tragedy in any way? Does anyone have any thoughts on the effect that the tragedy had on survivors mental health in later years?
 
Hi Joe, I've been struck by this too. Two more passengers that committed suidide according to their information on this site are Dr. Henry Frauenthal and a third class male passenger who was living in Detroit (sorry I can't remember his name) who killed himself in 1951 after his wife divorced him. I've also read elsewhere that Madeline Astor took her own life and I've read on here that she didn't.
 
According to Titanic: Women & CHildren first, Madeline Astor had a heart condition to which she succumbed.

Jack Thayer committed suicide in 1945, after his mother died. 33 years after the sinking.

Fredrick Fleet committed suicide at the age of 70 something and after his wife died. He was 26 when Titanic sank.

Thats a long time in between the sinking and the suicide.

Chris
 
To the best of my knowledge, only 7 survivors committed suicide--none directly related to their Titanic experience. There are claims that Dodge was murdered and Frauenthal accidentally fell, but I think the evidence weighs in for suicide--especially in the case of Dr. Dodge.

1. Dr. Washington Dodge--1919--gunshot wound to the head due to business and investment problems.
2. Dr. Henry William Frauenthal--1927--jumped from his apartment balcony after months of depression partially resulting from the mental illness of his wife.
3. Johan (John) Niskanen--1927--gunshot wound to head and burns after he set his cabin on fire--depression over failure to strike gold on his property in California.
4. Jack Thayer--1945--throat slit with razor due to depression over the loss of his son, Edward Cassatt Thayer, during World War II.
5. John Morgan Davis--1951--ingested poison during the Christmas holidays after his wife left him.
6. Phyllis May Quick--1954--gunshot wound to the head allegedly due to marital problems.
7. Frederick Fleet--1965--hung himself on a clothesline--due to depression following the death of his wife Eva and being evicted from his home by her brother.

There is also a possibility that gambler George Brayton committed suicide by throwing himself in front of a train in Calexico, California in 1920. I haven't been able to prove that that George Brayton is the same man on Titanic.

Madeleine Astor's cause of death was more likely an accidental overdose of prescription drugs.
 
Gentlemen: Thank you for the excellent feedback. I think that question remains, however, whether the Titanic tragedy contributed to these deaths? And to what degree? Certainly, there were immediate, unrelated triggering events to the suicides: Thayer's son's death, the loss of Fleet's wife. Additionally, there were many years between the Titanic's sinking, and these suicides. But, I think, this is precisely how mental illness works. For example, in Robert Louis Stevenson's famous novel, "The Strange Case of Dr. Jeykll and Mr. Hyde" (which is really a story about mental illness, not monsters), toward the very end Dr. Jeykll explains that "I did not know that the doom and burden of man's life is forever on his shoulders, and when the attempt is made to cast it off, it but returns with more awful pressure." A tragedy revives itself, and its victims relive it, year after year. It probably only gets worse. I believe that despite the remoteness in time between the Titanic event and the suicides of Thayer, Fleet, or the others, the Titanic tragedy could have made these persons, progressively less able to cope, and more vulnerable or "thin-skulled" as the proverbial saying goes. Thus, over the years, the Titanic tragedy killed off more people than the 1,526 on the night of April 14-15, 1912. It killed people for many more years after that.
 
Philip: I'm interested in what you said about Brayton possibly committing suicide. I'd like to hear more about that. You mentioned it might not be the same Brayton. For one thing it's not clear that his name was Brayton. It could have been Bradley as listed on the ET website. In Kenneth Schultz's Catalog Sixty Five, Item 575, a great niece claims his name was Brereton. Please give more details on the 1920 incident in Calexico, California.
 
In addition to considering the survivor suicides among the Titanic's ultimate toll, one must also consider those whose lives were shortened by the disaster, in particular those w/ pre-existing health problems.

According to the bios, relatives of Alexander Holverson's widow believed the sinking contributed to her early death. There is also Charlotte Collyer, who was consumptive (?) I believe. After losing her husband during the trip to America which was mainly to improve her health, she succumbed less than two years after the sinking. There are many instances such as these, where the Titanic could be considered a contributory factor to the premature end of some survivors, just as much as those who took their own lives.

The pattern of the suicides being almost exclusively male survivors, is mostly a statement of society at that time.

But ultimately it probably comes down to each individual's ability to handle trauma as there are cases of survivor's continuing to thrive despite further tragedies. Mrs. Henry B Harris by all accounts always maintained an upbeat attitude despite first losing her husband than most of her money and living in reduced circumstances for the rest of her life. Jennie Hanson, despite being described as in frail health at the time she lost her husband and his brother, remarried and lived 40 more years.
 
The mental health of survivors of the disaster is an interesting subject. I have been researching a couple from Rochester NY who survived- Ethel and Edward Beane. Mr. Beane never allowed any discussion of the Titanic in his presence while he was alive. He died at a relatively early age in a local state mental hospital. I think men who survived may have had an especially hard time
dealing with it.
 
Here's an excerpt from a 1998 newspaper article about Johan Svensson, also known as "Titanic Johnson," who survived the sinking. I think it reinforces the point that the pain of the tragedy became more aggravated as years went by - - possibly explaining the psychosis of some survivors, and the many suicides among others:

"His daughter, Joy Johnson, suspects that the voices screaming from the icy waters of the Atlantic, begging to be saved, haunted him until his death in 1981. As he got older, it just seemed to come back more vividly to him., Joy Johnson says. He had nightmares all the time, it was really tragic. He always asked me, "Why was I saved when so many others were lost".
 
Joe:
Since 6 of the 7 Titanic suicides were male and most of the 700plus survivors were female, the suicide rate seems even more astounding. Came across another passenger much affected by the tragedy == Abraham Lincoln Salomon.
Regards, Mike
 
I have a new passenger to add to the subject matter of this conversation: Robert Daniel. After the Titanic disaster, he suffered through three marriages, cirrhosis of the liver, and died at the age of 56.
 
Dear Pamela,
It will never be known for sure if it was Murdoch who killed himself, but the eyewitness accounts of an officer committing suicide do tend to support the fact that SOMEONE did. The other "candidates" for suicide include Chief Officer Henry Wilde and Captain Smith. I tend to think it was Murdoch though. If you would like to have a more in-depth discussion of this, please feel free to e-mail me at [email protected].
Sincerely, Tracey
 
It probably wasn't Capt. Smith. I read in one of the many books that some of the crew who were on Collapsible B said that a man swam by and said something like "Good Lads" and they recognized his voice as that of the Capt. When they tried to get an oar to him, he didn't take it. This was more than likely Capt. Smith.

I think he was also too proud of a man to take his own life. Murdoch was ranking officer on the bridge at the time, so he would have had the most guilt. I think it was him.
 

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