Sylvia Lightoller picture

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Lynda Franklin

Guest
All right another question from me is there a facial picture of Sylvia available anywhere ? The only one I have seen is a side view of her taken at the inquiry .
 
Dave Gittins

Dave Gittins

Member
There's a picture of Sylvia in old age here.

www geocities.com/hollywood/theater/7937/sylvia.jpg
 
Inger Sheil

Inger Sheil

Member
Patrick Stenson's Titanic Voyager, the re-release of his Odyssey of Charles Lightoller is probably the best published source of Sylvia photographs, Lynda. You can see her as a pretty young woman, and some nice shots with the family (including one with the older boys around the time of the sinking).
 
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Lynda Franklin

Guest
I FIGURED AS MUCH That the Stenson's bio called Titanic Voyager was the only source available.If people weren't so greedy and the price so high.For both books Murdoch and Lightollers.But she was a lovely woman in even in old age I can see why Lights fell in love. She was attractive person but thanks.
 
Inger Sheil

Inger Sheil

Member
I don't think it's greed, Lynda - booksellers have to make a living as much as anyone else, and will charge what they think the market will bear. I don't know of any that are getting rich from selling out-of-print editions of Lightoller's bio. They have to cover all their own costs and make at least a small profit to stay in business.

I know it's frustrating when you want a source that's out of your price range, but it's like wanting anything else that's scarce - I'd like to have an original Chiaparus sculpture, but simply because I can't afford it doesn't make all the dealers greedy. They're running a business, and have to operate by supply and demand.

Have you spoken to your library about getting an inter-library loan of the book? Most librarians I've met are extremely helpful - go to the information counter with the exact reference for the book and see if they can order it in for you to borrow.

I was going to PM you to see if there was a way I could send you an image of Sylvia, but I see you don't accept private messages. Drop me a line if you'd like me to send you one.
 
Michael H. Standart

Michael H. Standart

Member
>>If people weren't so greedy and the price so high.<<

I doubt that greed has much to do with it. Out of print books can have quite a value to collectors and those who own any such titles tend to be well aware of it. The mom and pop sort of bookstores that are likely to have it have to cover cost of operations just as Inger said, and have to tack on a substantial mark up just to cover it. Some books are likely to stay on the shelves for months because of all that, and this doesn't make for the reliable cash flow needed to stay in business.

Let's face it, when the bills come due, the creditors don't care if the sales are poor.
 
Dave Gittins

Dave Gittins

Member
I think some buyers are their own worst enemies. For instance, to pay $400 for Rostron's book is way over the top. It's a good read, but it's not particularly accurate as a source. As Inger says, an inter-library loan can be the best way of getting a look at the rarer books.

I keep an eye open for books that our local library sells off cheaply. I just bought a good life of Lord Nelson for $1 and years ago I bought The Lusitania Disaster for the same price. Some varmint beat me to Stenson's first Lightoller book.
 
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Lynda Franklin

Guest
To everyone else,

All of you are entitled to your opinion of course. But don't give me the yarn they have to stay in business to make a profit have you looked at any of the prices for Stenson's Titanic Voyager and for that matter the much sought after Murdoch bio ? As fas as I am concerned it is and highway robbery and nothing will change that.Trust me I look every day for one that I can afford .The ones that I have seen both bio's are selling for two hundard dollars Is a book worth that much ?No Not when it is a recent printing I would STRONGLY consider it if were from the time of 1912 .
 
Michael H. Standart

Michael H. Standart

Member
>>As fas as I am concerned it is and highway robbery and nothing will change that<<

Sorry Lynda, but that's not a yarn, that's reality. I work in the retail industry and own stock in the company for which I work. I pay attention to the nuts and bolts details because I have to...vested interest and all that...and I have a very good concept of the expenses they have to face. All expenses of which I might add come right off the very top, starting with the taxman's cut.

The really large chains depend on volumn to make their quid, and this can help keep costs down to a reasonable level. However, the Mom and Pop bookstores which are owned by the propriater and perhaps a few partners still have to

a) Pay provincial/county/state/national/federal income taxes,
b) Pay local property taxes,
c) Pay rent on the store or the mortgage,
d) Pay any employees plus pay for any benefits such as unemployment insurance, social security matching (Or the equivalant to same in a nation other then the USA),
e) Any and all utility bills, including electricity, gas, water, sewage,
f) Pay any fees and assesments to credit card companyies. (Did you know that everytime you use a VISA, MASTERCARD, DISCOVER or other bank card, that the bank charges the business a fee?)
g) Pay for losses due to damage and theft (Shoplifters can eat you alive!)
h) Somehow retain any needed working capital to buy new stock and somehow,
i) Still make enough for the owner of said business to actually be able to afford a decent meal. This all just scratces the surface. Don't forget any and all insurance policies that have to be carried for fire, liability, etc.

That eats up the margin real fast, and the expenses are exactly the same for a small business as a large one. The problem a small business faces is that it's turnover in stock isn't anywhere close to what the big chain bookstores enjoy to help deal with the bills and still keep the investors happy. Then there is always the matter of supply and demand. If the demand exceeds thesupply, the price goes up. Especially if it's on something that has a premium collectors value.
 
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Lynda Franklin

Guest
Micheal I see where you are coming from I have worked in the industry before so everything makes sense .I didn't mean for you to think I was some arrogent little so and so that didn't .
Regarding your comment on charge cards/debits if the business gets a fee for the cards use then why not the buyer ?
I think in the end is this if you want the product bad enough, you pay the sellers price or you don't .
 
Michael H. Standart

Michael H. Standart

Member
>>Regarding your comment on charge cards/debits if the business gets a fee for the cards use then why not the buyer ?<<

Actually, the business get's charged a fee and you would be amazed at how many people don't know that. If you have a bank card, the bank that issues it also charges you interest on any of the unpaid balance if it's a revolving credit scheme. Others like American Express hit you with an annual fee.

This BTW, is why a lot of the big chains offer their own credit cards whenever they can. If the customer uses them, they don't get socked with the handling fees by the issuing bank.

>>I think in the end is this if you want the product bad enough, you pay the sellers price or you don't .<<

Quite right, and there are people who are willing to pay the premium rates for out of print books, especially if they have a premium value as collectors items.

Mostly, I'm not willing to go that far. At least not for any old book. Information, particularly accurate information is what I value most. I am willing to pay the premium if the book in question offers that.

The exception being for a really controversial matter such as the Californain affair. Most of the books on that thorny issue are long out of print and tough to get. The reason I made the effort is that occasionally, I have something to say about the matter. If I'm going to do that, it behooves me to know exactly what the arguements are from the source of the arguement. Agree with it or not, at least I know what was actually said. Knowing that much, I have a chance of offering a comment that doesn't make me look like the south end of a northbound horse.
 
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Lynda Franklin

Guest
Californain affair


Forgive my complete and total ignorance but who's the book by ?


The exception being for a really controversial matter such as the Californain affair. Most of the books on that thorny issue are long out of print and tough to get. The reason I made the effort is that occasionally, I have something to say about the matter. If I'm going to do that, it behooves me to know exactly what the arguements are from the source of the arguement. Agree with it or not, at least I know what was actually said. Knowing that much, I have a chance of offering a comment that doesn't make me look like the south end of a northbound horse.


If anyone looked like a the south end of a horse is me not you I didn't make my post clear on what I intended to say in the beginning.
 
Michael H. Standart

Michael H. Standart

Member
>>Forgive my complete and total ignorance but who's the book by ?<<

Which one? Peter Padfield, Leslie Harrison, Leslie Reade and Senan Molony have all written on this affair. Senan's work is the only one currently in print.
 
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Lynda Franklin

Guest
Which one? Peter Padfield, Leslie Harrison, Leslie Reade and Senan Molony have all written on this affair. Senan's work is the only one currently in print.

Are any of them tough to get ? I have seen copies I think of Lesile Harrison and maybe reade
 
Dave Gittins

Dave Gittins

Member
Don't forget my e-book, which includes a close, and I think unbiased, look at the Californian affair.


The Padfield, Harrison and Reade books are all rather hard to get. Padfield's dates from 1965. The others were issued in relatively small numbers.
 
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