Taking more artifacts from the wreck


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Jul 9, 2000
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To Bill, I would add my admonishment to please stay with us. A regretable truth in the Titanic Community is that there are two subjects which are gauranteed to raise some passions and that is the debate over salvage and the debate over the Californian. I wish it were otherwise, but at the end of the day, we ARE a community. I would wish that people on both sides could cool it a bit, but in the end, the passion is there because people care. If they DIDN'T care, then I'd really be frightened.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 
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Tracey McIntire

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Well said, Michael! Yes, we are a community and we all care about Titanic in our own way. At the risk of sounding cliched--we need to remember the common thread that binds us together.

Tracey McIntire
 
Sep 20, 2000
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Kritina Johnston wrote:
"I've come to the conclusion that it's a moot point about bringing up the objects (I won't call them artifacts, they are not old enough to be designated as such). You really can't learn anything about the people by looking or touching objects."

Hi, Kritina:

I've got to disagree with you on this one, but will certainly agree to disagree. There are museums throughout the world that showcase clothing and one can certainly learn much about the people from them.

For instance, there is a museum in a small, preserved medieval town in Germany that displays clothing of that era. And one can immediately deduce from a visit there that the aristocracy, at least, of those times was quite diminutive by today's standards. Some pairs of ladies' shoes, I recall, were more like those of infants nowadays!

At the other extreme of the TIME aspect, I found recently -- in researching the possible eventual whereabouts of one of Titanic's passengers -- that the Buchenwald Memorial, also in Germany, has done archaeological digs in the camp's garbage dumps in order to display artifacts of the Holocaust era. (And Holocaust museums world-wide display similar items, letters, and photos.) Since the Buchenwald concentration camp was only liberated in 1945, I fail to see how objects roughly twice as old can simply be regarded as NON-artifacts. And I doubt you'll find many Holocaust survivors or their families who would agree with you that they can't get any closer to those events through mere objects.

"Artifact" is in the eye of the beholder. Letters and items certainly can bring home a very personal realization of a tragedy. And I daresay, in this day of digital EVERYTHING, that even a pocket watch from 1912 might be seen by some as something of an enigma.

Regards,
John Feeney

P.S. Shelley, I too would like to see Ballard's testimony. If I didn't ask before, it's only because you did give a full citation, and I didn't want to put you to the trouble of having to re-type something I felt I could look up independently. Cheers!
 
Dec 12, 1999
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Bill,
Don't go, aside from your extensive background on Titanic, you are the only other Northern California person on the message board. Sometimes I get pretty turned off with the board, too. But I appreciated your feedback on the S.S. Bremen conversation. Some conversations on the board obviously haven't been too substantive, lately. In my opinion, the "Introduce Yourself" stuff tended to get buffs too focused on each other, to the detriment of the subject matter. However, conversations are getting more focused on Titanic. My Survivors' Suicide conversation has gotten off the track several times - but it always gets back on it. I guess it goes with the territory. I'm glad to see the board expand into areas of other shipwrecks, etc. In any event, if you're really fed up, just tune out for a while and then come back. Take care.
 
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Now Inger, I think you need to stop being so shy and tell people what you really think about the salvage issue. (Just teasing you, Ing).

Bill, please come back....we need you for our experiments, seriously.

Maureen.
 
Sep 12, 2000
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Now, you know what folks, I started to leave this thread just now with that little humor above and simply go on. But that would have been wrong, because it wouldn;t have addressed what was said and what really exists here.

The introduce yourself thread for whatever reason was created so that we could get to know each other. Yes, some of us have gotten off topic a bit at times, but it is not a Titanic Subject section of the Board and was never meant to be.

I appreciated knowing a little bit about folks prior to "speaking" with them here or providing my email address to people. And there are some great bits of information there.

Bill, I am so sorry that all that occured in your absence upset you that you would ask that Phil remove it. But I can not understand your reasoning for leaving just based on the slavage issue-based threads. Because there are so many really great concepts out there going on. But if I havenlt learned anything by this thread, I have learned this...everybody on th eplanet has a view and an opinion. They may not share mine or they may or they may have a totally different opinion that I totally can not understand, but bottom line it is their decison to choose, not mine and for them it is the correct view and opinion. Who am I to say that it is not correct or even that it is correct. So I respect your belief in your view and your opinion Bill.

And Joe is right though about one thing, his suicide thing has gone all over the place but it always returns to where it needs to be. And I have gotten interested in one aspect and have contacted Joe about it. This is how we help each other.

There is so much to read and learn here, but it takes all of us. Bill, I just can't think that is was just the threads from...well...that drove you away, there must be other factors. You haven't been posting for a while now. I do hope that you reconsider.

Everyone has a voice that can be heard here and that is what makes Phil's site so special. A lot is happening in the side lines and Bill, all that you contributed to the ship sink9ing theories and the suction and the testing and the lifeboat drill. Wasn;t that enough worth to keep you here.

I for one do not wish to see you go, but I agree with Joe, take a vacation and come back in a few weeks. But always remember, there are many threads to woirk on while you are here and if a topic is not there, start it. I personally would miss you if you left.

Maureen.
 

Inger Sheil

Member
Feb 9, 1999
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But Maureen m'dear...someone on this board has to be shy...and retiring...and reticent in sharing their views and reluctant to press forward with them...gentle and self-effacing...

Might as well be me ;-)

Thanks for the Empress look up, Geoff. BTW, completely off-topic, do you have Wilde's sister and brother's names? I believe I've got them, but want to confirm that they're correct.

All the best

Ing
 
Dec 13, 1999
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Hi Inger,
I've got them somewhere.....I think! I'm more familiar with his wife's side though. I'l have a look and see what is in my file.
Geoff
 

Jason D. Tiller

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Aug 20, 2000
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To Bill,

I'm adding my name as well to this, please don't leave the message board. I have enjoyed your messages and especially the ones about your experiments.

All your posts as Maureen mentioned about the sinking, the suction, the testing and the lifeboat drill have in my opinion been invaluable here. You definitely add a lot, no question about it.

I hope you reconsider you decision, because I also would miss you if you left.

Best regards,

Jason D. Tiller
 

Jason D. Tiller

Moderator
Member
Aug 20, 2000
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Niagara Falls, Ontario
Hi All!

Seeing the earlier post about the deck chair being auctioned off on ebay for $170,000 totally sickens me. It's a very touchy subject with me. This is absolutely morally wrong for people to do this and be able to make money off it. I get very upset every time I see this kind of thing going on when nothing is being done to stop it. Don't people stop and think to themselves this is horribly wrong before they go and start bidding for it? Can't they get their satisfaction from something else about the Titanic?

Michael, I agree with you. I wouldn't have any problem with this either if it was being done for scientific reasons and nothing more.

Inger is right, it is a bloody circus. Her comments are very valid in my opinion.

Best regards,

Jason D. Tiller
 
Sep 20, 2000
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Hi, Phil!

Would you consider closing the original thread of this topic, as well? It's now currently up to 91 posts, and extremely slow to load. Moreover, it looks like my browser won't support anything near this size, forcing me to switch browsers ever since the count reached about 71.

Thanks!

Sincerely,
John M. Feeney
 
Sep 20, 2000
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Hi, Jason!

Saw your prior on the original thread:

"Seeing the earlier post about the deck chair being auctioned off on ebay for $170,000 totally sickens me."

Agreed, but almost for an entirely different reason. Take, heart, Jason, if there are idiots out there foolish enough to shell out $170,000 for a deck chair, the chances are pretty good that they're likely to get "burned" eventually. Titanic mania ebbs and flows, and it's likely even now that those investors will very soon wish they'd put their money into something a little more lucrative. (Walter Lord's "The Night Lives On" is now selling on closeout at $2.95, so it's not hard to imagine that the bear market in these collectibles is not far off.)

Like P.T. Barnum said, "There's a sucker born every minute!"

Cheers!
John Feeney
 
Sep 12, 2000
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What! Are you saying that the $5M I paid for the 6 piece set of genuine Titanic Resin Deck Chairs may be a rip-off?!
Maureen.
 
Sep 20, 2000
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Absolutely, Mo! Though I imagine the beans may be getting a little funky by now.
wink.gif
 
Sep 12, 2000
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Hmmmmmm....been wondering about that...but they should be okay if I keep them enclosed in the circa 1912 MCDonald's plastic wrapper they came in right? I mean that way they keep their value right?
 
Dec 13, 1999
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Message for Inger.
Regarding the proposed sale of items retrieved from the wreck site of the "Empress of Ireland" disaster, you should initially contact Yves Tremblay, Musee de la Mer. at [email protected]. He will be able to furnish you with the exact details. Thank you for your interest.
Geoff
 
Jul 9, 2000
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As a general caveat, I would be VERY cautious about buying anything from an auction, especially the Titanic Deck Chair touted on the History Channel. I've been seeing rumblings about this on the Titanic listserv and there a good possibility that the whole thing may be a fraud. My understanding is that quite a few bids were just as bogus and the privce has dropped to $100,000...which is $99,999.99 too much if the chair is a fake.

Unless you can get solid documentation which establishes the authenticity of an article up for bid, then let the buyer beware!

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 
Aug 29, 2000
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Have received some reassuring information that Judge Clarke's successor, Judge Brown is one tough lady, very in tune with Clarke's sympathies towards the original agreement, and not about to be swayed by these new demands at RMST. Anybody feeling like posting a letter to her can do so to the U.S. Federal Court House, Granby Street, Norfolk, VA 23501 (I'll need to check and make sure her first name is Ruth)
 
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