Bryan Ciobanu
Member
I guess the list was in the pursers office. But, what is like? a book, or just some papers... How did it look like?
Bryan
Bryan
The cargolist
- Thread starter Bryan Ciobanu
- Start date
Noel F. Jones
Member
“I guess the list was in the pursers office. But, what is like? a book, or just some papers... How did it look like?”
Bryan,
A general cargo freight manifest is necessarily a large and usually bulky document; take 80 x 50 cm as a guide.
It is set out in ‘landscape’ format and bound in loose leaf form at the left margin by some suitable stationery device. Usually, certainly in 1912, it would be scribed on printed forms unique to the company. It could be typed or hand-written in a form which allowed multiple copying by such processes as hectograph.
Office copies were sometime given hardback covers to facilitate ease of handling, otherwise the document could be folded in upon itself depending upon its thickness.
There could be more than one document, usually a separate one for each port of discharge.
The document was compiled from the bills of lading and each ‘parcel’ was listed in bill of lading order (all bills were sequentially numbered as the cargo was booked). Each shipment (‘parcel’) was identified by its bill of lading number; this identification would be used by inter alia both shipowner and shipper in any subsequent communications.
The number of consignments, hence bill of lading numbers, could run into hundreds for an average general cargo. This can make for a bulky document, often several inches thick.
The layout is columnar in the following order left to right: b/l number, consignor, consignee, shipping (identification) marks, number of packages, description of packages (cases cartons crates bales bundles casks etc.), contents, overall weight or cubic capacity (whichever generates the greater revenue), revenue, rebate on revenue (don’t ask!), customs duty levied and anything else the shipowner might think relevant to the trade.
Several copies were got up, for, variously, office, customs clearance and entry, and shipboard use.
The primary purpose of the cargo manifest was as the shipowner’s record of revenue (freight) earned for the passage. The secondary purpose was as a record of outturn at port of discharge and the tertiary purpose would be for official (customs) use.
Copies would be put aboard into the custody of the purser for the purpose of effecting customs entry at port(s) of discharge. The custom house levies revenue on the basis of the entered document and compiles the customs bill of entry therefrom.
There would normally be a copy for the deck (Mate’s) office. This would be referenced, along with the stowage plan, by the deck officers when they were supervising the discharge. Depending on company practice the purser’s staff might also get up a synopsis of cargo from the manifest for the use of the deck officers.
Copies would also be put aboard for use of the stevedore and company agent at each port of discharge.
Copies would be retained in the head office for, variously, allocations of freight rebates, use of cargo claims clerks and for legal purposes. Under English law copies would be retained for no less than six years after voyage completion (or the last legal evolution!)
Finally, the cargo manifest is a useful document for such as firefighters, salvors and insurers in the event of casualty.
Noel
Bryan,
A general cargo freight manifest is necessarily a large and usually bulky document; take 80 x 50 cm as a guide.
It is set out in ‘landscape’ format and bound in loose leaf form at the left margin by some suitable stationery device. Usually, certainly in 1912, it would be scribed on printed forms unique to the company. It could be typed or hand-written in a form which allowed multiple copying by such processes as hectograph.
Office copies were sometime given hardback covers to facilitate ease of handling, otherwise the document could be folded in upon itself depending upon its thickness.
There could be more than one document, usually a separate one for each port of discharge.
The document was compiled from the bills of lading and each ‘parcel’ was listed in bill of lading order (all bills were sequentially numbered as the cargo was booked). Each shipment (‘parcel’) was identified by its bill of lading number; this identification would be used by inter alia both shipowner and shipper in any subsequent communications.
The number of consignments, hence bill of lading numbers, could run into hundreds for an average general cargo. This can make for a bulky document, often several inches thick.
The layout is columnar in the following order left to right: b/l number, consignor, consignee, shipping (identification) marks, number of packages, description of packages (cases cartons crates bales bundles casks etc.), contents, overall weight or cubic capacity (whichever generates the greater revenue), revenue, rebate on revenue (don’t ask!), customs duty levied and anything else the shipowner might think relevant to the trade.
Several copies were got up, for, variously, office, customs clearance and entry, and shipboard use.
The primary purpose of the cargo manifest was as the shipowner’s record of revenue (freight) earned for the passage. The secondary purpose was as a record of outturn at port of discharge and the tertiary purpose would be for official (customs) use.
Copies would be put aboard into the custody of the purser for the purpose of effecting customs entry at port(s) of discharge. The custom house levies revenue on the basis of the entered document and compiles the customs bill of entry therefrom.
There would normally be a copy for the deck (Mate’s) office. This would be referenced, along with the stowage plan, by the deck officers when they were supervising the discharge. Depending on company practice the purser’s staff might also get up a synopsis of cargo from the manifest for the use of the deck officers.
Copies would also be put aboard for use of the stevedore and company agent at each port of discharge.
Copies would be retained in the head office for, variously, allocations of freight rebates, use of cargo claims clerks and for legal purposes. Under English law copies would be retained for no less than six years after voyage completion (or the last legal evolution!)
Finally, the cargo manifest is a useful document for such as firefighters, salvors and insurers in the event of casualty.
Noel
Bob Godfrey
Member
Bryan, if you have the Eaton & Haas book Titanic: Triumph and Tragedy this has photos (on page 280) of the first two pages from the office carbon copy of the 'Freight List', showing items 1-40. The columns are laid out just as Noel has described, and all of the entries are hand written. Though the photos are rather small, it's just about possible to read the text (but hard work).
Bryan Ciobanu
Member
Thank you soo much Bob!
I just played "Adventure Out Of Time" (again)...
Would the list have looked like the one in the game? or is that just something CiberFlix Made up?
Thank you again!
Regards
Bryan
I just played "Adventure Out Of Time" (again)...
Would the list have looked like the one in the game? or is that just something CiberFlix Made up?
Thank you again!
Regards
Bryan
Bob Godfrey
Member
Bryan, you're welcome but my posting was just a brief addendum. The man you should be thanking for a very comprehensive answer is Noel.
Bryan Ciobanu
Member
Yes...Yes.... I am very sorry Noel.
Thank you a lot!!
I am sorry, I thought Bob wrote it, I will never happen' again, sorry again Noel.
Regards
Bryan
Thank you a lot!!
I am sorry, I thought Bob wrote it, I will never happen' again, sorry again Noel.
Regards
Bryan
Bryan Ciobanu
Member
Noel, Something like in the game? maybe?
B.A. Ciobanu
B.A. Ciobanu
Noel F. Jones
Member
Bryan, I'm not privy to the game so can't comment on that. I can only say that I doubt the publishers of a computer game would overly concern themselves with the minutiae of cargo accounting documentation. If it's part of the game I would guess they would opt for a much abreviated version of the real thing.
Incidentally, I omitted to mention the columns for "freight prepaid" and "freight payable at destination".
And as for "firefighters, salvors and insurers" of course I should have added "average adjusters". Heigh-ho!
Noel
Incidentally, I omitted to mention the columns for "freight prepaid" and "freight payable at destination".
And as for "firefighters, salvors and insurers" of course I should have added "average adjusters". Heigh-ho!
Noel
Bryan Ciobanu
Member
Thanks again Noel.
Donald Wilson
Member
Is there a definitive list on ET then...if so...where does one look for it???
Donald Wilson
Member
Bout ye Jason,
Many thanks for that, just what I'm after. ET is so extensive and full of great information, I'm in awe so many different people are still inspired by what happened to be tradegy.
Curiously, if it had NOT sunk, would we devote as much time and effort to its history?
Many thanks for that, just what I'm after. ET is so extensive and full of great information, I'm in awe so many different people are still inspired by what happened to be tradegy.
Curiously, if it had NOT sunk, would we devote as much time and effort to its history?
Brian R Peterson
Guest
More likely than not, no.
Had Titanic survived, she would have faded into obscurity and would have been scrapped like Olympic probably around the same time.
There would have been books and so on about the ship but she would most likely have never become as famous as she is today.
Best Regards,
Brian
Had Titanic survived, she would have faded into obscurity and would have been scrapped like Olympic probably around the same time.
There would have been books and so on about the ship but she would most likely have never become as famous as she is today.
Best Regards,
Brian
You're welcome, Donald.
Michael H. Standart
Member
>>Curiously, if it had NOT sunk, would we devote as much time and effort to its history?<<
As Brian said, not likely. The Titanic was the second of three planned sisters and recieved much the same treatment. Her departure didn't even draw that much of a crowd. Her claim to fame lies in her spectacular demise rather then anything else. Were it not for that, any historical attention would most likely have focused on the Olympic.
As Brian said, not likely. The Titanic was the second of three planned sisters and recieved much the same treatment. Her departure didn't even draw that much of a crowd. Her claim to fame lies in her spectacular demise rather then anything else. Were it not for that, any historical attention would most likely have focused on the Olympic.
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