The Era of Aristocracy and Arrogance

Dave Gittins

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Apr 11, 2001
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Bride was quite likely a nice bloke and was probably kind to old ladies and small, furry animals, but he was a lousy witness. His stories changed frequently. In Mersey's court, he drew sarcastic comments. Here's a bit of my book.

"For details of events in Titanic’s radio room, the court relied on Harold Bride, whose evidence was at times unsatisfactory. Sir John Simon found such discrepancies with his American testimony that at one point he rather sarcastically told Lord Mersey that his questions were aimed at establishing that Bride was ‘...the same gentleman who gave evidence in America.' Some of the variations were of little consequence. Phillips was now said to have ‘expressed his opinion of the Frankfurt and then told him to keep out of it, to stand by’ only after Captain Smith had told the operators to fend for themselves. There was a new version of the fight with the stoker, in which Bride held the would-be thief while Phillips clouted him. There were other inconsequential differences in Bride’s account of his adventure with collapsible B."

Bride also gave inconsistent evidence on his handling of an ice warning from Californian and on the death of Phillips. It's unfortunate that we have only his evidence on a number of topics.
 
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Alyson Jones

Guest
>>I saw of a conversation with the Franfurt didn't include the acrimonious exchange.<<

You're link had stated in it *You're a fool* so that's right.

The fight between Bride ,Phillips and the stoker,that's in Michael's link aswell.I wounder,if the stoker made it out alive?

One of the other member's earlier posted a post, that stated that Titanic's officer's are igrrorant then anything. What did he mean by that?
 
May 1, 2004
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I don't remember in what book I read it, but that author thought that Philips and Bride would not deal with the Frankfurt's wireless man because they were employed by Marconi and Frankfurt's man was employed by Telefunken. That does seem silly, especially from someone calling for help.

Do you think the Frankfurt's man was not fluent in English and thus could not grasp what Philips was Morseing?
 
May 27, 2007
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Do you think the Frankfurt's man was not fluent in English and thus could not grasp what Philips was Morseing?
Perhaps, but wasn't wireless morseing universal? If not then you might be on to something Marilyn.
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Alyson Jones

Guest
>> Philips and Bride would not deal with the Frankfurt's wireless man because they were employed by Marconi and Frankfurt's man was employed by Telefunken. That does seem silly, especially from someone calling for help.<<

I heard the exact thing. Apparently Marconi company and Telefunken company were arch rivals?

I have heard that Bride hated Telefunken and that's why he spoke to him in an unpleaseant name?
 
May 27, 2007
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I have heard that Bride hated Telefunken and that's why he spoke to him in an unpleasant name?
What's your source for that Alyson? Where's you read that in other words? Just got me curious is all?
 
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Alyson Jones

Guest
Um......I can't really remember.A program aired ages ago, and it had something on Bride and Marconi and Telefunken.
 
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Alyson Jones

Guest
George. Yes it was but with me,input goes in one ear and out the other. I wish i writing some answers down.
 
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Alyson Jones

Guest
My self quoted >>I wish i writing some answers down.<<

I meant to say is- I wish i write some answers down.
 
Aug 29, 2009
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I hate how people in the 1910's were so arrogant!

*J. Brute Ismay ordering the Titanic to go full speed ahead in an ice field (I'm glad he was later shunned for that!)

*First Class segregating steerage leaving them to drown like rats in a trap while they got away in the lifeboats and refused to rescue people.

*People saying "She's Unsinkable" and "This ship can't sink!" and "God himself can't sink this ship!" Because of that, God made the Titanic sink so humans wouldn't think they're better than God (just like the Tower of Babel).

I'm glad the Titanic sank! It shows how humans are no better than God!
 

Inger Sheil

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Dec 3, 2000
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You might want to do a bit more research on what the nature of Ismay's interaction was with Smith - it's not as simple as him "ordering" the Captain to do anything.

First class passengers did not segregate steerage passengers. There are a number of reasons for the class divisions, among them immigration laws. The passengers, however, did not have the responsibility for "segregating" steerage. As for refusing to rescue people - well, the first class passengers weren't alone in their reluctance to return for survivors. And primary responsibility for any rescue attempt would lie with the crew.

Isn't it a little presumptuous to speak for any divinity? If you know what was on God's mind - assuming He/She/It exists - perhaps you can explain why God did not sink the Titanic's older sister ship, the Olympic. I just don't follow the simplistic cause/effect thinking behind blaming God, given the inconsistencies in the rationale behind it.

And you might also want to explain why you can be "glad" that innocent people, including babies in arms who certainly didn't have an opinion on whether or not the ship was unsinkable, died ostensibly to prove a point.
 
Dec 2, 2000
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>>J. Brute Ismay ordering the Titanic to go full speed ahead in an ice field (I'm glad he was later shunned for that!) <<

What real evidence is there that he did this.

>>First Class segregating steerage leaving them to drown like rats in a trap while they got away in the lifeboats and refused to rescue people.<<

First Class didn't get a vote in this. As to not going back, that decision was made by whomever was in charge of the boats.

>>People saying "She's Unsinkable" and "This ship can't sink!" and "God himself can't sink this ship!" Because of that, God made the Titanic sink so humans wouldn't think they're better than God (just like the Tower of Babel). <<

I suspect that God has better things to do with his/her time then to target a single ship and wipe out the innocent along with the guilty. There was nothing of any kind miraculous or divine in the way Titanic met her end. Human fallibity was more then equal to the task. All that Omnipotance had to do was sit back and watch. Anything else is simply blame shifting.
 
Jan 28, 2003
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God has shown a remarkable reluctance to interfere / intervene in the affairs of mankind since Biblical times, or more accurately, since the Pentateuch. No more appearances, dictates, or even verifiable miracles. So I think we have to take responsibility for our own actions now. And also in 1912.

It shows how humans are no better than God!
This is one of the most extraordinary and mystifying statements I've ever read. I don't think I need to elaborate.
 

Jim Kalafus

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Dec 3, 2000
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>I suspect that God has better things to do with his/her time then to target a single ship and wipe out the innocent along with the guilty.

Depends on his mood. He spends half the Bible being petulant and vengeful.... probably afflicting Job with facial boils just in time for his new driver's license photo or employment interview .... culminating with a tantrum in which he kills the entire world except for one family, leaving us with an ugly heritage of being descended from brother/sister or first cousin incest. Which might explain Fox News, but I digress....

So, destroying the ship to prove a point seems within the scope of his anger control issues.

>As to not going back, that decision was made by whomever was in charge of the boats.

Well, we have the rather eunuch-like officer in charge of number 8, whose alleged "Remember ladies...." quote is the most bizarre comment ever made by an officer, bar none, in shipwreck history:

OFFICER: Let's go back
CRAVEN WOMENFOLK: No.
OFFICER: Oh, okay, if that's how you feel about it. But, remember, I wanted to...

And then you have the delightful heroines and crew of either boat #3 or #5, whose conduct allegedly disgusted Mrs. Dodge so much that she changed boats in midocean.

And the alleged incident in which women lay across oars to prevent a boat from turning back....

So, if the various anecdotal accounts from 1912 are to be believed (I think the truth hovers somewhere in the middle... a disastrous melding of ineffective officers and/or crew in some of the boats, interacting with some fairly vile passengers, viewed thru the rose colored glasses of blame shifting several weeks after the sinking) "while they got away in the lifeboats and refused to rescue people" cannot be entirely dismissed out-of-hand, since there is at least SOME evidence which suggests that (in some cases) it was true.

>perhaps you can explain why God did not sink the Titanic's older sister ship, the Olympic.

Well, he tried. And, later, he DID use her as a tool to kill a lightship crew. So, if we prefer to worship the pre-Christ wrathful god, we can interpret the Hawke incident as warning... an omen, if you will...a calling out of "repent, or next time it will be worse." OR, the Hawke and Titanic incidents can be seen as a Job-like test of faith rained down on Captain Smith, in which 1500 people got caught in the holy crossfire.
 

Bob Godfrey

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Nov 22, 2002
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Once again I have cause to appreciate the philosophy of the late great Irish comedian Dave Allen, who when confronted with people who couldn't or wouldn't take responsibility for their own human failings would comment "Thank God I'm an atheist!"