The Goodwins

  • Thread starter Laura Melinda Varjo
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Laura Melinda Varjo

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Hi, does anyone know what year were the 5 oldest Goodwin children born-Lillian, Charles, William, Jessie, and Harold ? We can`t assume they were 16, 14, 11, 10, and 9, what if they were all a year older, or a year younger ? Does anyone have a clue ?
 
Dec 2, 2000
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>>why werent any of there bodies recovered?<<

Perhaps because nobody doing the searches found them. (And if any or all were found, they were never identified.) Remember that the search area in question was the North Atlantic. That's quite a big chunk of the Earth to try and cover, and a body looks mighty small in relation to that.
 

Don Tweed

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Mar 30, 2006
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Maybe it's because they stayed below.
I wonder what passed through Lillian and Charles minds that night. In their secondary station.
Wondering Aloud, Don
 
Nov 11, 2005
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There has been a recent posting regarding the Goodwin baby and him possibly being recovered and buried as the Unknown Child.
Dna placed Eino Panula, who is one of my ancestors, as the child, but apparently two tests were done, one pointed to Eino, while the other one somewhat suggested Sidney, but came up inconclusive. They are at this time doing a second test to exclude and confirm if Eino or Sidney is the Unknown Child. For more info, check another page that is under Eino Panula distant relative to Sidney Goodwin. The title is what it is. DNA has proved a very distant and very old relationship between the both mother's mitochondrial DNA. Check it out.
 

Will C. White

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Apr 18, 2007
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I love DNA. At last there's a name for a grave. Nothing sadder than a marker that reads 'Unknown', esp. one of a child. Even the worst examples of humanity have had someone at some point that cared for them. We can't bring them back, but at least we can "carry them home".
 
Mar 15, 2001
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I am bothered that this child was positively identified as someone else other than the Goodwin child and now he is being positively identified as being Sidney Goodwin. How could the earlier identification been made if the results weren't conclusive?
 
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Timothy Trower

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Because Ruffman and company did sloppy research, and did not complete the DNA testing that should have been done before making their grand announcement.
 

Mike Poirier

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Dec 31, 2004
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There has been some mis-information going around about the details of what happened. These are addressed in Voyage 60, journal of Titanic International Society.

The first was that the Panulas were not informed. He says, " We spoke only publicly once we had personally addressed our strongly felt obligations to the modern Finnish descendants of the Panula child and to the modern descendants of the Goodwin child."

Although apparently, not every descendant was informed, as one relative on this board was not, it seems other Panulas were.

There is no denying that blood samples provided by the Panula family matched the DNA extracted from the bone fragment. Yet, in Ruffman and Parr's continued research on the subject,the three teeth recovered from the shallower and drier grave of the 'Unknown Child' were examined by dental experts who recognized the presence of undergraded dentin which eventually led to a better mtDNA.

The experts said that the teeth were from a very young child. And the mtDNA at that point matched the Panula child.

There were still doubts, as the Mackay Bennet did describe the body as being a 2 year old child. Although mtDNA and HVS1 (hyper variable segment 1) matched Panula, after the program, and with the field of science and DNA ever evolving, Ruffman and Parr began working with HVS2 and that is how it ruled out the Panula child.

Unfortunately, and fortunately, we are still evolving and learning new ways and methods and developing new techniques and that is what apparently happened while attempting to discover the identity of the unknown child.

As the President of TIS noted, internet rumors of what happened and what was said at the BTS convention has not helped.
Phrases such as "I'm hearing', 'pervasive rumors', 'I've been told', etc... It would be just as easy to telephone the Halifax cemetery to find out the real story of the stone!
 
May 19, 2002
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Hi Mike,

according to the Daily Mirror over here its been confirmed that it is leslie Goodwin, the newspaper article finished off with an appeal to any knowing any Goodwin relatives still living

Cliff
 

Mike Poirier

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Dec 31, 2004
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Hi Cliff
that is interesting. I guess they are looking for more biographical info on the Goodwins? They must have contact with at least one descendant otherwise they would not have been able to complete their tests.
Mike
 
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Timothy Trower

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"... Ruffman and company did sloppy research, and did not complete the DNA testing that should have been done before making their grand announcement."
 
May 19, 2002
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Mike,

the Daily Mirror also mentioned that Augusta Goodwin's sister Clara gave an interview with the Daily Mirror at the time of the disaster.

As Fred Goodwin's brother Thomas was living in Niagra Falls at the time maybe there are still relations living there and have managed to do the tests from his descendants

Cliff
 

Mike Poirier

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Dec 31, 2004
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Hi Cliff
Thanks for that. Sounds like great info you have. Hope you got the digitals of the claims I sent for your article...

Well Tim, when you get your degree in science and the art of DNA, let us know. Can't wait to see your thesis when you are ready.
 
Mar 15, 2001
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There are 9 Goodwins listed in the white pages for Niagara Falls. I wonder if Frank has any living children or grandchildren still in that area.
 
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Timothy Trower

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A thesis and a degree sure didn't help Alan Ruffman.
 
Dec 2, 2000
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>>A thesis and a degree sure didn't help Alan Ruffman.<<

Perhaps not but further work helped sort things out and that's the beauty of real science. It has the methodological mechinisms in place to correct mistakes, and these people did it in public for all to see.