The Job of a Captain
- Thread starter Erik Wood
- Start date
Yuri Singleton
Member
I don't get that last exchange? What does nationality have to do with the command structure?
Curious...
Yuri
Curious...
Yuri
It it more expensive to pay me then it is to pay a Captain from another country. Cheap labor. That is why we almost have no steel industry left, and why American shipping is almost gone. I was one of only a hand ful of American Captains in the big ship cruise ship industry.
Erik
Erik
Yuri Singleton
Member
"Ooooohhhhh." (In my best Edith Bunker)
Yuri
Yuri
David G. Brown
RIP
All this talk of the staff captain...a while ago, Erik needed a captain's staff.
I had a mutiny on my boat one day. Got into an argument with myself and lost. 'twasn't pretty.
-- David G. Brown
I had a mutiny on my boat one day. Got into an argument with myself and lost. 'twasn't pretty.
-- David G. Brown
Dave Gittins
Member
Many thanks, Captain Wood! I find this all far more interesting than endless arguments over Captain Lord or Bruce Ismay.
We have the same problems in Oz over employing foreign crews. Right now there is a standoff on an Aussie ship. The owners want to sell it to a foreign subsidiary, hoist the Bahamas flag and employ Ukrainians. I say flags of convenience should only be flown on what are euphemistically called conveniences.
We have the same problems in Oz over employing foreign crews. Right now there is a standoff on an Aussie ship. The owners want to sell it to a foreign subsidiary, hoist the Bahamas flag and employ Ukrainians. I say flags of convenience should only be flown on what are euphemistically called conveniences.
Yuri Singleton
Member
Back to topic, does a captain have any say in who is on his crew? Did Captain Smith have any say in who was on Titanic's maiden voyage?
Why, or why not?
Yuri
Why, or why not?
Yuri
Tracy Smith
Member
I'm curious about this one myself, Yuri. I'm also curious as to whether the answer would apply just as well to Captain Lord as for Captain Smith, that is, whether freight ship captains would be in the same situation as to crew choice, as would a passenger captain.
But I'm thinking that I heard that it was Captain Smith who caused the officer shakeup that left David Blair ashore, because he wanted Wilde as his Chief Officer.
But I'm thinking that I heard that it was Captain Smith who caused the officer shakeup that left David Blair ashore, because he wanted Wilde as his Chief Officer.
Kris Muhvic
Member
First, I must say that I have absolutley no experience with the workings of a ship, yet I could not help but think, reading this thread, "that's my job description!". You see, I work in a corporate office building- yes, landlubber, and those "Dilbert" cartoons are just not funny. The operation of any collective groups/teams/compani es attempting a work-flow is a tricky business.
I can, as a low-rung supervisor (I won't bore you with the actual job title; changes every quarter), sympathise with the concept of delegation: "detached involvment". Yes, be aware, make sure, and be responsible...for other's job. If something goes wrong, they come to you; basically answer for someone else's issue. Of course, one needs to make sure that does not take place...or, at the very least, with minimal impact. It is a little like being a filter- absorb the soot and let clean air through (to the boss, or Captain). Yet all the while, trusting that everyone else knows the job, the expectations etc., and simultanously preparing-even if it's only at the back of one's mind- for what may go wrong: fixing a problem before it even arises. A little schizophrenic sounding, but after a while becomes almost second nature. Remember the old: "having eyes at the back of the head"? Well, that would be the luxury!
No, I'm not complaining. Sure, makes for trying moments at times. But the end result: "point A to point B", without disaster (they happen on any magnitude!), is, not just life, also accomplishment.
I don't know if this was at all necessary, just wanted to share a perspective- thank you for the time.
Kris
I can, as a low-rung supervisor (I won't bore you with the actual job title; changes every quarter), sympathise with the concept of delegation: "detached involvment". Yes, be aware, make sure, and be responsible...for other's job. If something goes wrong, they come to you; basically answer for someone else's issue. Of course, one needs to make sure that does not take place...or, at the very least, with minimal impact. It is a little like being a filter- absorb the soot and let clean air through (to the boss, or Captain). Yet all the while, trusting that everyone else knows the job, the expectations etc., and simultanously preparing-even if it's only at the back of one's mind- for what may go wrong: fixing a problem before it even arises. A little schizophrenic sounding, but after a while becomes almost second nature. Remember the old: "having eyes at the back of the head"? Well, that would be the luxury!
No, I'm not complaining. Sure, makes for trying moments at times. But the end result: "point A to point B", without disaster (they happen on any magnitude!), is, not just life, also accomplishment.
I don't know if this was at all necessary, just wanted to share a perspective- thank you for the time.
Kris
Dave Gittins
Member
I've never seen any primary source that shows why Blair was dropped to make way for Wilde. The only thing that is certain is that it was not done at the last minute. Olympic sailed for the US on April 3rd, so it had been decided before then.
It would seem odd for Smith to want Wilde for his experience. Smith already had experience with a Titanic size ship. If anybody needed help. it would have been Captain Haddock.
It could have been something quite mundane. Maybe Wilde was sick and couldn't go with Olympic.
It would seem odd for Smith to want Wilde for his experience. Smith already had experience with a Titanic size ship. If anybody needed help. it would have been Captain Haddock.
It could have been something quite mundane. Maybe Wilde was sick and couldn't go with Olympic.
David Haisman
Guest
Hi, to all of those seeking the workings or information of the British Mercantile Marine. Do not take for 'gospel' what you read here regarding the crewing or organisational activities of ships sailing, especially, under the Red Duster as much of it can be misleading.
Many countries operate their ships in a far different manner than that which has been quoted here many times on this thread. Perhaps when giving advice we should end our statements with the words,
'Thats how we do it in our country'
Please don't take offence. I'm trying to point out to those out there with precious little knowledge on the subject that we all operate differently.
I joined the Australian Merchant Navy in 1968 and they operate differently to us in the UK although much of their basics come from Old Country, but that's another story that will remain on the back burner for the time being.
So please gentlemen, don't 'lump' us all into the same category.
Yours respectfully,
David Haisman
Many countries operate their ships in a far different manner than that which has been quoted here many times on this thread. Perhaps when giving advice we should end our statements with the words,
'Thats how we do it in our country'
Please don't take offence. I'm trying to point out to those out there with precious little knowledge on the subject that we all operate differently.
I joined the Australian Merchant Navy in 1968 and they operate differently to us in the UK although much of their basics come from Old Country, but that's another story that will remain on the back burner for the time being.
So please gentlemen, don't 'lump' us all into the same category.
Yours respectfully,
David Haisman
The only way I intended to "lump us all into the same category" is in the respect that we are all sailors, not matter from what country, nationality or training we are all servants of the sea.
It has been my experience that the British run a much tighter ship then do the Americans or any other country for that matter. One of the many things that I have noticed while talking with Captain Warick and several other former Cunard Captains is that they are extremely proud of the company they work for, not to mention the service that they provide.
Cunard it is sad to say is the last true Line. In my tenure with Carnival I learned to respect Pat who is the or was the VP of operations for Cunard, she has an extreme nack for being "on the ball" she doesn't let coporate BS dictate how she will run her ships. In fact I can recall a meetting in Miami in which she told the President of Carnival that she didn't care how we ran things down here, she runs her ships her way.
A few years ago (back in the early 90's) the QE2 had just come out of a refit period. She was doing a Xmas cruise. However, some British tabloid had gotten aboard and had written about how the ship was unsafe to sail and sighted several instances in which the ship was unsafe. It just so happens that the United States Coast Guard Activities Europe had a Marine Inspection Detachment in England at the time. They faxed all the good stuff to New York and the Coast Guard was waiting for the QE2 when she got the pier. Eventually Cunard had to send the passengers home via other means and QE2 sat at the dock for 2 weeks until she could pass U.S. Coast Guard standards. All the while the Captain at the time (who I know personaly)threw the biggest temper tantrum.
This to me is a very typical story of how it really doesn't matter what nationality you are. The Captain was told to sail. So he sailed, full well knowing that although he ship was safe, would not pass a U.S. Coast Guard inspection. He paid the consquences.
How I have written things in relation to staffing and the organizational make up should not and does not include all companies or countries. It only comes from experience with Matson Line, and Carnival. I have served on ships in every company that Carnival owns, including Cunard and Holland America, This is just an overview of the job of Captain.
Having said that I will stand by what I have posted above as current staffing for cruise ships out the countries that Carnival operates ships. Although the current staffing has not always been the case, it also sometimes changes from ship to ship. When it comes to frieght, I can only tell you how Matson does it and how the Great Lakes does it.
So I purpose to Mr. Haisman that rather then say "That is how we do it in our country" we should say "That is how it is done in the companies that I have worked for".
I did not mean to offend Mr. Haisman and I hope that he has not taken offense to me discussing my career. I only meant to explain things the way I have experienced them.
Erik
It has been my experience that the British run a much tighter ship then do the Americans or any other country for that matter. One of the many things that I have noticed while talking with Captain Warick and several other former Cunard Captains is that they are extremely proud of the company they work for, not to mention the service that they provide.
Cunard it is sad to say is the last true Line. In my tenure with Carnival I learned to respect Pat who is the or was the VP of operations for Cunard, she has an extreme nack for being "on the ball" she doesn't let coporate BS dictate how she will run her ships. In fact I can recall a meetting in Miami in which she told the President of Carnival that she didn't care how we ran things down here, she runs her ships her way.
A few years ago (back in the early 90's) the QE2 had just come out of a refit period. She was doing a Xmas cruise. However, some British tabloid had gotten aboard and had written about how the ship was unsafe to sail and sighted several instances in which the ship was unsafe. It just so happens that the United States Coast Guard Activities Europe had a Marine Inspection Detachment in England at the time. They faxed all the good stuff to New York and the Coast Guard was waiting for the QE2 when she got the pier. Eventually Cunard had to send the passengers home via other means and QE2 sat at the dock for 2 weeks until she could pass U.S. Coast Guard standards. All the while the Captain at the time (who I know personaly)threw the biggest temper tantrum.
This to me is a very typical story of how it really doesn't matter what nationality you are. The Captain was told to sail. So he sailed, full well knowing that although he ship was safe, would not pass a U.S. Coast Guard inspection. He paid the consquences.
How I have written things in relation to staffing and the organizational make up should not and does not include all companies or countries. It only comes from experience with Matson Line, and Carnival. I have served on ships in every company that Carnival owns, including Cunard and Holland America, This is just an overview of the job of Captain.
Having said that I will stand by what I have posted above as current staffing for cruise ships out the countries that Carnival operates ships. Although the current staffing has not always been the case, it also sometimes changes from ship to ship. When it comes to frieght, I can only tell you how Matson does it and how the Great Lakes does it.
So I purpose to Mr. Haisman that rather then say "That is how we do it in our country" we should say "That is how it is done in the companies that I have worked for".
I did not mean to offend Mr. Haisman and I hope that he has not taken offense to me discussing my career. I only meant to explain things the way I have experienced them.
Erik
David Haisman
Guest
Dear Captain Wood,
Thank you for both of your e-mails and certainly no offence taken.
Since a boy of fifteen to my present age of 64, the sea has seen the best part of my life and as you may have realised by now, I jealously guard that career. No particular writer on these posts is a target but many writers on seamanship matters on the internet have no experience whatever and thoroughly mislead at times an extremely naive public on maritime matters.
Very often it reads as though it is typical practice onboard all ships and unless we pull them up from time to time, our precious maritime history, and mine also, becomes something of a comedy act.
Titanic's historical value will eventually fall by the wayside if it's not kept in check by people like yourself and Michael Standard who are forever doing your best in that respect.
For my part, I intend to write from purely experience and let the library dwellers get on with whatever they do best, but they shouldn't try to impress all and sundry that they know all about the subject. Being a good scholar is highly commendable but experience is absolutely the ultimate.
However, thank you once again for your reply, keep the good work up and continue to steer between the anchors !
Yours Sincerely,
David Haisman
Thank you for both of your e-mails and certainly no offence taken.
Since a boy of fifteen to my present age of 64, the sea has seen the best part of my life and as you may have realised by now, I jealously guard that career. No particular writer on these posts is a target but many writers on seamanship matters on the internet have no experience whatever and thoroughly mislead at times an extremely naive public on maritime matters.
Very often it reads as though it is typical practice onboard all ships and unless we pull them up from time to time, our precious maritime history, and mine also, becomes something of a comedy act.
Titanic's historical value will eventually fall by the wayside if it's not kept in check by people like yourself and Michael Standard who are forever doing your best in that respect.
For my part, I intend to write from purely experience and let the library dwellers get on with whatever they do best, but they shouldn't try to impress all and sundry that they know all about the subject. Being a good scholar is highly commendable but experience is absolutely the ultimate.
However, thank you once again for your reply, keep the good work up and continue to steer between the anchors !
Yours Sincerely,
David Haisman
Kyrila Scully
Member
Frankly, David, I'd much rather listen to you all (those that have experienced maritime service) than sit in a stuffy library reading a book about it. Hearing it first hand from one who was there makes it much more interesting - alive with action and emotion that you can't ever get from a book. Which is why I enjoy going to schools and historical commemorations in my Edwardian costume and character, to portray one of the Titanic survivors. The look on people's faces, especially the kids, when they get what you're doing and you can see their imaginations spark and their thirst for knowledge begins. So don't be discouraged because you ARE getting through, whether you see the effect or not. Carry on, mates!
Kyrila
Kyrila
Similar threads
