The Most Haunted Liner in the World


Jun 12, 2004
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Parks -

I can see that your boys really keep things alive for you. Yours is probably one collective imagination, hehe.

I have never seen Ghost Hunters, so I cannot comment on it. It's a docu-soap, so I presume that it's not meant to be taken seriously? Or is it? Does the show claim any truth?

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I didn't sleep much on my wedding night because our honeymoon suite was just a few doors away from the supposedly haunted room.

Too close for comfort, as the saying goes.

By the way, the alleged ghost in the Hotel Coronado is supposed to be that of a woman who committed suicide by shooting herself in her room when she found out that her lover ran off with someone else (I THINK that's right).


Jason -

Thanks for the link to the Ivan Vassili. It was a very interesting story. I'd be interested in the skeptic's take on this story, considering that it actually did happen.

Mike, what's your take on it?


As for the QM's 1st-class pool area, I saw the photos at the links you provided. Interesting and eerie, but it's important to keep an open mind. There are several explanations for this, including film-doctoring by those who'd like to stir up a great story. Not saying that's the case, mind you, only that it's possible.

I take it that this pool area is one of the strangest places on board? To answer your question, Jason: I heard that someone actually did die in that pool. Two people, actually, one a teenager. One death occurred in the '50s, the other during the '60s, although I don't recall exactly when.



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intentionally created to be scary by the present owners.

What is the deal with the effects created for ghostly purposes? Electrical phenomena? Lighting? Sound and visual effects?

Supposedly, one 18-year-old engineering technician died down there a long time ago when a hatch door crushed him.


I wonder if the hotel plays up its haunted history as a means of increasing business or to share, out of pride and distinction, it's unique and colorful background. Or, perhaps, both!
 
Jun 12, 2004
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your best chance for survival is to stay with the ship if you possibly can.

I wouldn't say that's true with the Titanic, Britannic, La Bourgogne or the the Lousitania, just to name a few. There are some instances where it's preferable to leave. If there's any truth behind the Ivan Vassili, departure would have been extremely prudent.
 
Dec 2, 2000
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>>I wouldn't say that's true with the Titanic, Britannic, La Bourgogne or the the Lousitania, just to name a few.<<

Nor would I. Note that I qualified it with "If you possibly can."

Sometimes you just have to get on that boat and get the hell outta Dodge while yo still can. The catch is that the Mary Celeste wasn't in any immidiate danger of sinking. Apparantly, some of the alcohol casks which were aboard as cargo were found open. This spawned a lot of lurid speculation that the crew had gotten drunk and mutinied. A lot more likely is that they took to the boat for fear of an explosion.

In this instance, it was a very bad gamble.

>>Mike, what's your take on it?<<

It's a helluva story but mass hystria for any reason or no reason at all isn't exactly without precedent, and even when atheism was the rule in Russia, culturally, they are a profoundly superstitious people. For all the talk of a "presnece" aboard the ship, the story is notable for not defining exactly what it is. All else aside, I have to wonder if the incidents of hysteria were not in fact a pharmacological reaction to something that may have been in the food.
 
Feb 4, 2007
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I have to wonder if the incidents of hysteria were not in fact a pharmacological reaction to something that may have been in the food.
I thought about that as well Mike. My only contradiction against this theory is the time-lapse between occurrences. Assuming they got one batch of tainted food or drink, surely this would not have lasted for months on end? Perhaps for one voyage, sure, or maybe even the following, but for it to be a continuous problem - and only aboard that one ship, is curious indeed.

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Two people, actually, one a teenager. One death occurred in the '50s, the other during the '60s, although I don't recall exactly when.
Yeah, I read that one of the deaths was in the '30's and one in the '60's. However, I want to see documented evidence of these deaths, not just hearsay.

The main Hotel Del Coronado ghost is named 'Kate Morgan'. The Del is not shy about advertising it's resident ghost:

http://www.hoteldel.com/about/history.cfm

I have been there as well but didn't observe anything at all. Great time though!

And while we're in California, what about Sarah Winchester and the Winchester Mystery House? Now that's a riot! I used to live very near there. I was more fascinated by the architecture of the Winchester House than fixated upon ghosts.

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I wonder if the hotel plays up its haunted history as a means of increasing business or to share, out of pride and distinction, it's unique and colorful background. Or, perhaps, both!
As a wise man once said, "Follow the money".
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Feb 4, 2007
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I take it that this pool area is one of the strangest places on board?
Supposedly, it is the "center" for all the paranormal activity on the QM. I can vouch for the fact that it isn't the most hospitable of places ~ there is no natural light source. It's beautiful, but I would not have said it was strange. Uncomfortable, yes. I wouldn't want to be there alone. I would like to go back with one other person, just ourselves (no, I don't mean for THAT) and spend some time there with a camera and a tape recorder. The YouTube links I posted above have some paranormal sound that was captured from the bow. There was a permanent webcam in the pool area that anyone could watch online, but I think it's either a subscription type deal now, or out-of-order.

Parks, have you considered going there with a tape recorder and/or camera and camping out in the pool area?
 
Dec 2, 2000
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>>Assuming they got one batch of tainted food or drink, surely this would not have lasted for months on end?<<

Wouldn't it?

Remember the history of the witch hunts in Europe a few centuries ago? There's strong evidence that a lot of this was fueled by contaminated barley in the food supply. Bergomot if I recall correctly. In any event, I noted in the article that even when all this started, there were long periods of time during the voyage when absolutely nothing happened.

It may well be something else, but be that as it may, a lot of ghost stories fall apart under critical close examination, with events being attributed to the supernatural turning out to have natural causes.

The problem here is that no such serious investigation was ever carried out.
 
May 27, 2007
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Mark>
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What stories do you have to share, George? Anything related to the QM? Ever been there?

Never been to the Queen Mary alas. I've heard stories of the Great Lakes Phantom ships and also the Cyclops in WWI and of course the Peggy Something? from the Revolutionary War. The Cyclops disappeared and the Peggy I believe is a ship that sank and is now a ghost ship like the Flying Dutchman. I've heard of the Mary Celeste Too.

Supposedly the story I heard was that the Captain of the Flying Dutchman cursed God so his ship is cursed and supposedly seen by another ship then that ship is in danger it self. If any sailors die on the doomed ship their souls go to take the place of the Flying Dutchman crew. The captain can never leave though for having cursed God.

Mark>
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By the way, the alleged ghost in the Hotel Coronado is supposed to be that of a woman who committed suicide by shooting herself in her room when she found out that her lover ran off with someone else (I THINK that's right).

I heard that story too Mark. Supposedly from what I heard her lover lured her to the steps of the Hotel and shot her in the head and made it look like she shot herself and so she haunts the Hotel because her murder went free.
 

John Clifford

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The Queen Mary has many stories of ghostly presences.
They played it up, big-time, when the Ghosts and Legends Tour was running.

The child's laugh at the pool, and the guest who vanished, after murdering a paid escort in his room, are popular fare.
However, the one about the Technician is that the man, whose name I cannot recall right now (his first name was "John"), was doing a "dare game" (my term) by trying to see how fast he could run past the closing watertight doors.
One day, however, he did not make it, and was crushed by one of the Engine Room doors. Since that time there have been reported sightings of one sort or another. That included a time when it was stated that three shadows appeared in an area where two persons were standing.

I, myself, wondered if ghosts were present, during visits to parts of the ship, but I admit it could just be my imagination.
Not that that disproves anything.

RE: the Winchester Mystery House, near San Jose: I got to tour that place, last June. It is more like "a builder's bread and butter" (again, my term), as Sarah Winchester believed she had to provide spaces for the ghosts said to have sought revenge on her family (because of the Winchester Rifle, used in both the Mexican-American and U.S. Civil War). However, if people wish to believe the place is haunted, that is their choice.

Of course, almost every City has a "Haunted History" area and tour, and October is probably the most popular month for that.
That includes the Queen Mary.
 
Jun 12, 2004
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I heard that story too Mark. Supposedly from what I heard her lover lured her to the steps of the Hotel and shot her in the head and made it look like she shot herself and so she haunts the Hotel because her murder went free.

George -

Yes, I've seen and read that story, too. Quite the intrigue, wouldn't you say? ;)

Thanks for the link, Jason!
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RE: the Winchester Mystery House, near San Jose: I got to tour that place, last June.

The Winchester Mansion has a tour? I am not surprised. That ought to be very interesting to see the interior schematics. Lucky are those who do not explore alone--it's very easy to get lost in there.

Aside from the paranormal, though, that would be a architect's dream!
 
Jun 12, 2004
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Supposedly the story I heard was that the Captain of the Flying Dutchman cursed God so his ship is cursed and supposedly seen by another ship then that ship is in danger it self. If any sailors die on the doomed ship their souls go to take the place of the Flying Dutchman crew. The captain can never leave though for having cursed God.

I would be interested to know how much of this story is actually true (i.e. based on some fact), but, alas, no evidence likely exists to confirm this. It makes for a very colorful legend, though.

As does the story about the builder who, along with his tool bag, was sealed up in the hull of the Great Eastern. Over the years, knocking sounds were heard resonating through the hull. When the hull was disassembled, the workers found a skeleton and an old satchel buried within. That story is in a couple of books comprising my collections. Don't know the extent of the truth behind that one, either.
 
May 27, 2007
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Mark-

I'd feel like Alice in Wonderland in the Winchester House.

Kate Farmer Morgan was from Iowa Mark so I'm always interested and intrigued.

Actually if I could go anywhere I'd go to see the Hornet or Grey Ghost as she was called.
 
Jun 12, 2004
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Parks, have you considered going there with a tape recorder and/or camera and camping out in the pool area?

These are called EVPs, and they have brought forth some interesting results. Everything from personal addresses ("hi!" "How are you?") to distant conversations to laughing to crying to screaming to even breathing have been recorded. How would you scientifically assess the validity of this, though?


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It may well be something else, but be that as it may, a lot of ghost stories fall apart under critical close examination, with events being attributed to the supernatural turning out to have natural causes.

Yes, but not all of them. That's why care and caution must be provided when thoroughly investigating these, without jumping to conclusions either way.

The problem with this, however, is for an investigator to not let her/his imagination affect her/his analytical bias, which is a difficult thing to do. The imagination can just as easily convince an investigator that sources of this phenomena are of nature creation as they are of a paranormal one. Ghost encounters can sometimes leave behind very ambiguous evidence.
 
Jun 12, 2004
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I'd feel like Alice in Wonderland in the Winchester House.

Indeed!


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Kate Farmer Morgan was from Iowa

Yes, I know. That's not too far from your state, is it, George? Her home there marked for historical distinction?

Fascinating story on the Flying Dutchman. Sounds like you know the story quite well. Be careful about Wikipedia, though. That source has been deemed dubious regarding reliability.

I'm wondering if they'll ever do a movie on that. I would definitely see it!
 
May 27, 2007
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I too would see a movie about the Flying Dutchman.

Wikipedia is tricky but they're an okay place to start at.

Re: Kate Morgan
Actually I was born in Keosauqua Ia. My Family was living in Bonaparte at the time. That's were us Lortons were from. My Grandfather was raised there. My great Uncles widow still lives there.
 
May 27, 2007
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Ha Ha quite true.
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I had an Aunt in Iowa City as well who was a nurse at the University Hospital and did a 5 year stint at the Veterans hospital. Ceder Rapids and Mount Vernon, heard of them never been there.
 

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