The mystery of Grand Staircase cherub


Jul 5, 2010
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cherub.jpg


Hello. It is known that all of the photos of Grand Staircase is of "Olympic". And photos clearly show that two types of cherubs existed: the one from aft staircase holded the lamp in his right hand, another- from grand staircase - in his left. I found a web page www titanic online.com, there it is claimed that at the aft staircase of "Titanic" (the wreck from recovered and said to be from C deck (?)) cherub would be smaller than "the famous larger cousin" and "the one of a pair mounted on the side banisters of the staircase rather than in the center". So is it the third type of cherub? However, the picture from "Olympic's" aft staircase show the cherub at the centre of staircase (and it's not looking smaller at all). The drawing of aft staircase of "Titanic" at B deck reception room near a la Carte Restaurant show the cherub exact as the one from aft staircase of "Olympic" - at the centre with lamp in right hand. So, I find it very confusing to decide, how "Titanic's" cherubs really looked like.
P.S. I used public use images (as it claimed) to illustrate this message.
 

Chris

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Mar 5, 2011
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According to something I read somewhere (I know, I'm sorry but I cannot remember where I read this, if I find it again i'll post a link) there was a cherub for each and every landing on the forward and aft 1st Class Grand Staircases (excluding the E Deck landing forward that showcased the candelabra instead, and beneath that at the very base where the staircase changed almost completely to a more conventional style) there was a brass cherub gracing the base of the baulestrade/railing in the very center. They varied in size as to where they were placed - I think it was that the well known larger cherubs (or "the famous larger cousin" as you have it in your post) were at the first two deck levels on both forward and aft staircases (A Deck and B Deck on the forward, B Deck and C Deck on the aft) and that C Deck (excluding the aft staircase) and D deck had smaller versions. Note that they were ALL centered and that as far as I know there were not any mounted to side banisters. Hope this answers your question, and as I said if I find the link I will post it here.
 

Chris

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Mar 5, 2011
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Darn... I was trying soooo hard not to confuse myself with the decks... :p Thanks Mat ha ha
happy.gif
 

pipeorganest

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Apr 16, 2012
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Hey... iv been obsessed with the cherubs for some reason... but anyways... I just now found this photo of what is claimed to be the original cherub recently recovered from the wreck. Yes, it does look like concrete, but so did the one from 1987 when they recovered it. As you can see... the detail is pretty comparable to that of the olympics main cherub... some details cannot be known for sure because the back is not shown. Part of the arm is missing, and I can provide a link if necessary. I also found this on google images "fyi". could this be the main cherub for the titanic at all or is this a definite fake?
cherub-light-fixture-titanic (1).jpg

cherub-light-fixture-titanic (1).jpg
 
Mar 18, 2008
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That is not original. The only items recovered from the Titanic wreck are the putti from the C-Deck landing (the left leg with the base is missing) and the base from the cherub of the forward A Deck landing.
 
Mar 18, 2008
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The base was recovered in 2000. Sorry, I can't post any picture without breaking copyright. You can find an picture of it in the book "Journey to Titanic" but the quality is poor.
 

pipeorganest

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Thank you... and it turns out that the one i posted is a prop from the wreck scene from James Cameron's film "Titanic" and it is on display at the National Geographic Museum in Washington D.C. THANK YOU :D
 

robert warren

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Feb 19, 2016
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Actually my doubts about two cherubs flanking the opposite ends of the b and c deck aft staircases may have been flushed.Today I stumbled on a pic of Olympics c deck aft staircase taken in 1933 and even though the pic is not crystal clear, you can see the cherubs on the ends with their torchlights.There is a pineapple finial in the middle where one cherub should be. Also I have recently seen what appear to be photos of Brittanics staircase since there is a beautiful painting in the area where the clock should be.However this looks like a photo, not an illustration if studied more closely. Any helpful on these photos would be very helpful. Thank you
 
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B & C Deck landing on the forward staircase as well as C Deck on the aft staircase had the small putti (cherubs) at the sides.
Britannic's staircase did not have a painting, they are photoshopped images.
 

robert warren

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Feb 19, 2016
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Well in the 5 days since I posted the above Ive had to rework some things out.The 1933 pic of Olympics c deck landing was the first time Ive seen it. It may be photoshopped as well. I looked at my Titanic deck plans and the C deck aft landing has no such area depicted. There are staterooms left and right,and foward is the bulkhead where the 4th funnel was.This was surrounded by more staterooms. Immediately to the right of the stairs was the barbershop.Now it is possible this photo was doctored up to push the double cherub theory.This area looks like a hotel lobby, but I highly doubt there was anything like it on Titanic(according to charts and blueprints).Unfortunately with a subject so far reaching people tend to create myths in words and pictures that a number of people,including decades long scholars like myself, tend to rub our hands and think "oh boy what if this is reeaaallly true"! The above pic of the broken cherub is proof of that. However I would like to say one small cherub recovered from the wreck is in no way proof positive that pairs of them flanked the other stair landings.Its all speculation. Also this cherub is regarded as small (18 inches) and people are not adding the missing inches in the foot,the base and how far the torchlight came above the little guys head. When complete this cherub was probably about 10 - 12 inches shorter than its A deck cousin(40 inches) which is not THAT small.Finally the illustration of the aft B deck landing of the restaurant reception room shows a large cherub in the middle of the staircase.
 
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Mar 18, 2008
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Well in the 5 days since I posted the above Ive had to rework some things out.The 1933 pic of Olympics c deck landing was the first time Ive seen it. It may be photoshopped as well. I looked at my Titanic deck plans and the C deck aft landing has no such area depicted. There are staterooms left and right,and foward is the bulkhead where the 4th funnel was. This was surrounded by more staterooms. Immediately to the right of the stairs was the barbershop.Now it is possible this photo was doctored up to push the double cherub theory.This area looks like a hotel lobby, but I highly doubt there was anything like it on Titanic(according to charts and blueprints).Unfortunately with a subject so far reaching people tend to create myths in words and pictures
The aft staircase has goes only down to C Deck.

The picture of OIympic C Deck landing is not doctored. Also it is no theory. C Deck has the pursers officer which is visible on the Olympic picture.

However I would like to say one small cherub recovered from the wreck is in no way proof positive that pairs of them flanked the other stair landings.Its all speculation. Also this cherub is regarded as small (18 inches) and people are not adding the missing inches in the foot,the base and how far the torchlight came above the little guys head. When complete this cherub was probably about 10 - 12 inches shorter than its A deck cousin(40 inches) which is not THAT small.
Which people did not add the missing inches in foot and base?
Sorry but what you are stating is pure speculation on your part as you seem not to like how the staircase really was.

Finally the illustration of the aft B deck landing of the restaurant reception room shows a large cherub in the middle of the staircase.
The aft B Deck landing was same as the forward A Deck landing.
 

robert warren

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Feb 19, 2016
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Everyone comments on the size of the cherub as it looks today which is why I said add extra inches for missing elements.I said the aft staircase goes down to C deck but if you look at the actual BLUEPRINTS you will not see any thing resembling the hotel lobby space that's in the picture.Its nothing but staterooms on all sides.I have no problem how the staircase was, I just want actual sources and reliable references.Like I said one cherub recovered doesn't offer proof that pairs of them flanked the staircase landings,because that is also pure speculation as well.Find out what source the 1933 photo came from. Also if you have seen the pursers office taken on Olympic during the 20s it looks like a bank with teller windows and nothing like the 30s photo.
 
Mar 18, 2008
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I said the aft staircase goes down to C deck but if you look at the actual BLUEPRINTS you will not see anything resembling the hotel lobby space that's in the picture.Its nothing but staterooms on all sides.
Not sure what blueprints you are talking about and if you are looking on the aft C Deck landing you will not find the purser officer as it is on the forward C Deck landing.

Also if you have seen the pursers office taken on Olympic during the 20s it looks like a bank with teller windows and nothing like the 30s photo.
No idea what you mean with "teller windows". The pursers office remained the same in all the years, only the colour changed as that of the staircase.

Olympic C Deck landing with Pursers Office.
C Deck landing.jpg


1st class pursers office
Purser Office.jpg


C Deck on Titanic
2017-03-08 at 19-33-07.png
 
Mar 18, 2008
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Oh, and if you look on Deck Plans from Olympic from the 1930s then make sure to look at the forward staircase on B Deck as the deck numbers got changed by that time with A Deck becoming Promenade Deck, B Deck becomes A Deck, C Deck becomes B Deck etc.
 

robert warren

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Feb 19, 2016
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Yes I knew the pursers office was off the forward staircase area. It was explored and photographed in Ghosts Of The Abyss. However the confusion lies in the fact that everyone talks about the aft C deck landing so that's why the 1933 photo was questioned.The only Pursers office photo Ive ever seen was in the book Triumph and Tragedy. It was cropped so it had the look of a small space. Im also surprised since Olympic was in service for 25 years that much more photos haven't surfaced given the amount of people that sailed on her during that time. The recovered cherub would have been taller in the past. You have the mans fingers on the stub where the foot would have been.Add about a couple of inches for the rest of his foot.Then the base which was probably a few inches more, then add the cornucopia with flame light which extended about another 6-8 inches above his right hand. I know its guesswork but if you restored him by adding these missing elements he would be taller then what you see today.In fact to get a good idea ,the foot and base would probably extend down to the brown bar above the words " everyone comments on the size of the cherub today" Just for the record, during my 40 year love affair with the Titanic Ive come across a number of pics and stories that seem to be legit but are not.So there is a doubting mechanism when I see photos that have never been seen in any book or other source. My first response is yeah right why hasn't this been published before.Like I said this subject is so far reaching that people make up myths and do wonderful things with photoshopping that it can be easy to get taken in by untruths.
 
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JJAstorII

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Mar 14, 2017
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Actually my doubts about two cherubs flanking the opposite ends of the b and c deck aft staircases may have been flushed.Today I stumbled on a pic of Olympics c deck aft staircase taken in 1933 and even though the pic is not crystal clear, you can see the cherubs on the ends with their torchlights.There is a pineapple finial in the middle where one cherub should be. Also I have recently seen what appear to be photos of Brittanics staircase since there is a beautiful painting in the area where the clock should be.However this looks like a photo, not an illustration if studied more closely. Any helpful on these photos would be very helpful. Thank you
They also have these double flanked cherubs in the game Honor and Glory (two small cherubs on each post) and I know they were METICULOUS over their historic detailing of the ship so I think it's possible for sure.
 

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