The panelling in second class


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Rolf Vonk

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Hello dear people,

I've a question about the panelling in second class. As we know the first class was (mostly beautifull) panelled. Also the corridors. I'm sure that many of you know the picture taken on E deck and showing a part of the first class corridor. The walls are panelled. Though the panelling isn't "extra ordinaire", there is is one. Is there anyone who have an idea about the second class corridors. Were they panelled too??
I think there's a big chance as the cabins and the public area's were too.

I'm looking forward to your responses!

Regards,
Rolf
 
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Daniel Rosenshine

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Dear Rolf,

If you're referring to the E deck picture of where on Titanic E66 would have been, then that is NOT a first class corridor.

That picture would have been taken some time in 1911 on Olympic. This area on Olympic (at that time) was second class and not 1st, thus the picture shows what second class corridors looked like.

Daniel.
 
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Rolf Vonk

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Hi Daniel,

Yes, you're right! That picture is from Olympic. I'm thinking too much about Titanic. But wasn't that area a kind of "switch-area". I thought it could have been used as both first and second class as mentioned on early Titanic plans. So, that could mean that the wallpanelling is a little more luxuerous as in other second class parts of the ship. It's just a guess...

Regards,
Rolf
 
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Daniel Rosenshine

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No, at the time when the picture was taken the area was second-class only, and could not be and was not used by first class.

Later however, E deck on Olympic was the same as Titanic. That area and further (just as on Titanic's deck plans) was used for first class. Once again I think this was after the 1912 - 1913 refit. June 1914 plans show it to be so.

Daniel.
 
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Rolf Vonk

Guest
Dear Daniel,

Thanks for your information! Good to know that the cabins in that part of Olympic were second class during the early years. Funny, on the first concept of the Titanic plans they made it "first/second class" and on the final version they made it "first class" if I'm correct. Any clue about that same area on Britannic. My Britannic deckplans don't go further than C deck.

However, the picture gives me a good idea about the second class wallpanelling. It isn't even that bad at all. Second class is rather luxureous. Was the whole part of Olympics E deck second class? Otherwise I wonder if the first class part on E deck had different wallpanelling. I'm really going to like second class!
proud.gif


Regards,
Rolf
 
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Rolf Vonk

Guest
BTW, forgot to ask if you know in what year the picture on E deck was taken.

Rolf
 
Rolf,

If memory serves, all of Britannic's E-deck first cabins could become second class and nearly all of them were to begin with (I haven't got my plans with me at present.) Some of these even had private baths. She could carry 790 first class, a little more than her sisters, but considerably more second class, some 836 people. It was a considerably expanding class of travel in 1914, with possible emigration restrictions already predicted by a few people. Steerage was decreased to some 953 if I remember rightly.

Best regards,

Mark.
 
I realised I was confusing... I mean to say that steerage would decrease in the future, but at the time second class was expanding.
 
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Rolf Vonk

Guest
Hi Mark,

Long live the Bourgeoisie! hehehehe

Thanks for your information. You told about the private bathrooms that could be used for second class on E deck. Do I have to think at the kind of cabinclassification as used for first class on Titanic's or Olympic's forward C deck? That means 3 cabins and a private bathroom.

I was wondering how it was possible that both first and second class could carry more passengers. I know there were some first class cabins added, but even when you add cabins and add more sofa/pullman berths etc is it possible to get a larger total of passengers in both classes? Or am I wrong and did you count the E deck passenger capacity for both second and first class?

Is it possible that some third class areas were sacrificed to become second class? That could have been possible in the aft part of G deck. Just a guess...

I'm sorry for all these questions, but is is really interesting!

Regards,
Rolf
 
Rolf,

I'll give a more detailed post when I've consulted my plans; I think you are on the right lines when you give the C-deck private bath arrangement. If I recall, taxing my brain, there were three or five private baths for some of the rooms.

Many of the second class areas were interchangable with some third class areas, meaning you either had the best of one or the worst of the other. It is not a firsthand source, but I have a hunch (without a good description of her accommodation in those parts) that these areas would be considerably more luxe; e.g. second class had a gymnasium, as one example, and far more promenade space.

Additionally, with second class on E-deck where the worst of first class was, I have wondered whether they would have had access to the Turkish bath and grand stairs, to first class. You could hardly stop second class in these areas with steel gates and you would always have some second class passengers sneaking into first class whenever they could.

Best regards,

Mark.
 
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Rolf Vonk

Guest
Hi Mark,

I think I have a little idea about the new classification on Britannic. Have the visible changes on the aft part of Britannics D and C deck something to do with this new classification?

I was wondering what you meant with the second class gymnasium. Do you talk about the first/second class gymnasium or just a whole new added gymnasium for only second class?

I've read somewhere that the gymnasium and the turkish bats on Titanic could be used for first and second class. So that means that it was possible for the second class passengers to sneak into first class (and yes, they are right to do so!), cause they had to walk through that whole first class corridor on E deck to reach the staircase. I fully agree that you could hardly stop second class in those areas with steel gates.

Probably it wasn't a problem to let second class into first class. During the embarking of Titanic passengers in Southampton, the second class passengers were allowed to investigate first class areas.

Regards,
Rolf
 
Rolf,

I must confess I still have not had time to check my plans, but much of second and third class was interchangable. First class E-deck corridor could become all second class.

Second class had a gymnasium aft on C-deck (if memory works) off the aft second class stairs, under the enclosed aft well deck, the rest of which was used for enclosed third class areas. Therefore there were two gymnasiums on the ship, one in first class near the playroom and one in second class. The enclosure meant an additional expansion joint there to relieve stresses in the hull; she also had a joint in the middle of the boat deck, unlike her sisters, which surely proved useful when she served in the Mediterranean. (spelt wrong?)

I think you mean the changes aft on B and C-decks, notably the deckhouse over the poop deck and the enlosure of the aft well deck which I've mentioned. These were not really used for additional cabins, but for more amusements. Third class smoking room was in the new deckhouse over the poop and was larger, while the Shade Deck at the top of the deckhouse was a good promenade area designed to carry two sets of gantry davits and twelve lifeboats of some seventy-five people, enough to accommodate third class who got easy access from their far more numerous stairways.

Regarding interchangable accommodation, if Titanic's was so arranged there could be 1,034 first, 510 second and 1,022 third class according to the British enquiry report. Usually, if I remember, she took 735 first, 674 second and 1,026 third. Olympic carried 735 first, 675 second and 1,030 third class after her 1913 refit, shrunk in 1933 to 618 first, 447 tourist and 382 third class who enjoyed continually improving accommodations such as two cinemas, one in the first class lounge and one in the second class library, while I have unconfirmed rumours that one was added in third, but I may be getting beyond the point...

Britannic's accommodation was improved in every respect for all classes. It's one point, but the German liners still had not got squash courts, nor the Aquitania, which only had a swimming pool and gymnasium in first class, no Turkish or electric baths, although it did have a veranda café for second class and two drawing rooms in first instead of a reading and writing room...

I remember one quote about second and third class which went something like 'any steward will tell you that the best people travel second class at third class rates' which belonged to someone speaking about the 1922 Majestic to Franklin Deano Roosevelt.

Best regards,

Mark.
 
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Rolf Vonk

Guest
Hi Mark,

No problem about the deckplans. Take all the time you need! It's nice to compare the passenger capacities of the three sisters. You can see how time was changing.

Yes, you were right about the gymnasium on C deck. I've found it on the deckplans. It's on the starboardside and belong the aft second class staircase. Do you have any idea about all the little rooms just beside the third class general room on C deck?? I can't read what their function was. They are in the same place as Titanic's third class smokeroom. However, Britannics third class smokeroom is replaced to B deck as you mentioned.

Yes, I agree with you that Britannic was improved for all the classes aboard. The deckplans aren't beautifull, but the ideas for it are good. I once placed a picture of the first class cinema aboard Olympic on ET. I don't know if you've seen it before, but you can find it somewhere here in the construction topic.

I think many German liners were antiquated at the time of Britannic. I don't know if the German empire got the chance to build new liners in the WWI years and that may be the reason for the lack of public areas and luxe. However, the Dutch ships were the first who introduced the enclosed first class promenades and bathrooms for every first class room. So I'm really proud at my ancestors!! hehehe

Sure best people travelled in second class. Not too poor, not too rich and no need to do if you are a "nouveau riche". Though, you can't choose in what milieu you are born.

Regards,
Rolf
 
Rolf,

A quick post: the rooms next to the general room are the ship's hospital, expanded and put in the third class space, presumably because they were in the worst state of health.

Best regards,

Mark.
 
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Rolf Vonk

Guest
Hi Mark,

Just a quick post too: what happened with the area of the hospital on D deck, when it was replaced to C deck?

Regards,
Rolf
 
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