The Prequel to Cameron's Titanic


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sharon rutman

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I've always wondered about Ruth, Cal and Rose's lives before they boarded the Titanic.

For example a prequel could cover one really burning question that needs to be answered--how did Rose and Ruth's money just evaporate into thin air the way it did? Did Ruth's hubby blow the wad gambling or making one lousy investment after another? Did he max out the Mastercard and Visa accounts? Didn't either a banker or a lawyer sit down with Ruth and read her the riot act telling her the money was gone that she had better make some drastic cuts to her lavish lifestyle after hubby's funeral?

How did Rose and Cal meet? I'm also surprised that Cal would even want to marry Rose at all, especially since he probably knew that she was now flat broke. True she had a so-called 'good name' but the rich only married to enrich their bank accounts and Rose couldn't do that or give Cal a lavish dowery. The aristocrats back then only married for more money and to enhance their status by wedding and bedding some wealthy heir or heiress to some great fortune. A penniless beautiful trophy wife was completely useless and wouldn't help Cal's social standing. Cal was no prize, but I don't think he really wanted to support and impoverished Ruth so she could keep playing Queen Bee.

Also why were they in England in the first place?
 

Beth Barber

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I agree, I think it would be kinda cool to know things that happened before hand and how their situation came to be. They didn't say much - really nothing about Ruths husband.

I don't think Cal knew the situation that Ruth and Rose were in - the scene where Ruth was "helping" Rose into her corset and the conversation they had - it just leads me to believe that no one knew the "dire straits" they were in (other than maybe the family lawyers if they had them, which they probably did) - and that is why Ruth was so desperately trying to force Rose to marry someone she apparently didn't love. So their secret wouldn't be found out.

Maybe they were just on a trip - lots of the passengers were taking vacations.

It is interesting to think about.
 
Jul 9, 2000
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>>Did Ruth's hubby blow the wad gambling or making one lousy investment after another?<<

Seems a reasonable assumption. It's not as if entire fortunes have never been squandred away by an assortment of bas vices and worse judgement.

>>How did Rose and Cal meet? I'm also surprised that Cal would even want to marry Rose at all, especially since he probably knew that she was now flat broke.<<

The impression I had was that the DeWitt Bukators were presented as members of American society with the Hockleys being prominant industrialists. In that sense, it would be highly probable that they knew of each other and may well have met in some high society dis-function. Presentation of the Debutants anyone?

For the Hockleys, it may in fact have been a shrewd move since they would have been in a position to pay off the DeWitt Bukator debts and take on their tangible assets which could have been more valuable in their own right then the outstanding debt. Major corperations do the same today only with the real estate being the asset of actual value. (The K-Mart buying out Sears was the same sort of move on a grander scale, with Sears assets in property being worth more then the corperate entity itself.)

Cold blooded???

Damned right it was, but business was business and in a day and age where high society marraiges were as much business propositions as anything else, it has a ring of credibility.
 
May 3, 2005
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>>How did Rose and Cal meet? I'm also surprised that Cal would even want to marry Rose at all, especially since he probably knew that she was now flat broke.<<

I think part..or most... of it might have been a result of pushy old Mommy Ruth...especially since Mommy Ruth knew that she was flat broke.

I've already solved the problem of "How did Rose and Ben meet ?" on the "Grand Daughter Lizzie" thread. I'll leave the "How did Rose and Cal meet ?" to the experts.LOL.
 

Jim Kalafus

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They met in school. Based entirely on evidence in the film: Rose was the know-it-all student who concealed her own essential shallowness by memorizing the preface of "deep" books and regurgitating the ideas within as her own, without actually having read the book. (Shallow~ and incorrect~ Freud reference. Postermat Impressionist works thrown about cabin. Inexplicable air of defensive hauteur.) She was also a bit of a tease, who would date guys but not come across for them, while at the same time picking up random kids from other high schools, where, who cared if they talked, it's not like they'd see one other again anyway. Or so she thought. She was actually a hot number for that very reason- she'd have sex with you in a parked car no questions asked, and all you'd have to do is feed her a line about how special she was. She also used threats of self-destruction as a tool to get her own way, with both her long suffering mother and whatever guy she was "seeing" but not sleeping with. In short, out of control mallrat of the sort who turn up with startling regularity on TV Episodes with titles like "Help Me, Maury, I'm Afraid Of My Daughter."

Cal, on the other hand, was the class closet queen. Not yet fully aware of his own gayness, he snagged himself a hot trophy girlfriend in Rose, who kept the talk down. But, for some reason- other than her toxic personality- he was unable to connect with her, symbolically or literally. To "maintain" the facade he bullied those obviously gay kids in the school, but on one or two occasions when he got drunk at parties he'd "let" them...uh....errmm...moving on, Rose realised early that on she had the perfect masochistic boyfriend for her own brand of control and domination, and so kept him on~string while at the same time professing to hate him. She took pleasure in doing things like picking up strange men, obviously having sex with them right under Cal's nose, and leaving nude pictures of herself where both Cal and her mother were sure to find them.

Given her lack of morals, here is how she ended up married. Pregnant by Jack, she called one of the boys who liked her and to whom she would never give the time of day, and professed to like him. Sex on the first date, and then she didn't call again for two months, at which point he got the "You are the father" phone message. And she always told her family that Lizzie's mother was born 4 months premature (at 11 pounds)and was a "Little Miracle Baby." Her husband, after realising he had been tricked, began drinking...
 
May 27, 2007
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Ruth took Rose to a Quatillion and stuck a sign around her neck that said "Will marry for Money."
Cal walked up. End of story.
 
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sharon rutman

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We can all pretty much agree that Cal was an arrogant bullying snob but as the scion of a prominent industrial family, he certainly would have his #1 goon Lovejoy conduct an investigation into Rose's background to make sure there was not a whiff of scandal anywhere. Wouldn't the fact that her family, despite having a good name, was now flat broke have set off the warning bells in his head? Didn't he know that Ruth was desperately trying to palm off her lovely marriageable daughter on him just so she can continue to have a lavish lifestyle with Cal footing the bills for all her Queen Bee trappings. And what would life had been like for them after the wedding, had it taken place? After dutifully bearing a couple of little aristocrats to keep the family name going, was Cal going to still proclaim how much he loved Rose? Nah--the minute Rose's looks and her figure started to go, Cal's eye would have started wandering around for someone else real fast or found satisfaction with a mistress or two Not a happy situation for anyone is it?
 
Feb 4, 2007
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quote:

Wouldn't the fact that her family, despite having a good name, was now flat broke have set off the warning bells in his head?
I have often wondered about that as well, Sharon. It does seem strange doesn't it? While there is much that is 'un-believable' in this movie, the money disparity between Cal and Ruth was a point that was difficult for me to suspend disbelief in. If Ruth's money was really "gone" as she claimed, then both she and Rose must have been living off of Cal's good graces (money) at the time they boarded Titanic.

quote:

Cal's eye would have started wandering around for someone else real fast
Yeah. For someone else like one of his male former school chums.
happy.gif
 
May 27, 2007
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Jason: "Yeah. For someone else like one of his male former school chums."

A nice blond hustler who looked like Jack Dawson would have done the trick nicely.

Scene from The Little Hustler That Would.

Titanic 1912

Cal: "Open your pants to me Jack."

Jack: "I don't know Cal. I know how the world works. You have nothing to offer me but a dollar 'cause your so cheap."
lol.gif
 
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sharon rutman

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Well, guess what Jason, I think exploring the GAY angle is also quite intriguing! See folks, there are lots of out of the box ways to view all aspects of the Titanic! Maybe it wasn't such a bad idea to focus on Marxism and feminism after all. Marxism concentrates on class warfare and obsession with material goods and success and MONEY, MONEY, MONEY!!!! Feminism focuses on how helpless Ruth and Rose were because they have always relied on men for everything!!!! See how this works?
 
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Cal: "You know, there's nothing I couldn't give you. There's nothing I'd deny you........IF you'd not deny me.....I think a twenty should do it."

Jack: "Is that the going rate? It's overwhelming! Count me in."

Cal: "Good! Settled then. This should be interesting....."

In this situation, Rose truly would have been helpless. There is no changing a man's persuasion once his mind and heart are made up.

wink.gif


Seriously though, I wonder what Ruth and Rose did before they met Cal? Did they still have their 'old' money then?

Perhaps unbeknownst to Rose, after her husband died, Ruth ran a 'halfway home' for wayward girls. This home specialized in making its desirable occupants available for a price. As a regular 'Mrs. Meers', Ruth kept a large chunk of the proceeds as rent and utilities payments, thus paving the way for herself and Rose to live in great comfort with many fine things. Not wishing her own daughter to suffer such a fate and in order for Rose to never find out where their money came from, Ruth sent her away to school where she met Cal.....

Ultimately, after Rose and Cal had been courting for awhile, Lovejoy (always the faithful Hockley family stooge) found out the true source of Ruth's funding and put a stop to it. If Ruth would marry him, Lovejoy, he would see to it that she was provided for and that Rose would marry Cal ~ thus saving them both from public scandal and a fate worse than death. To seal their little pact, they all departed for a Winter tour of Europe to then return in Spring to celebrate their respective weddings.....
 
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sharon rutman

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Hey maybe Cal was bi-sexual and played both sides of the street.

Actually $20.00 was alot of money back in 1912.

Nice try Jason, but Ruth was a mean old bat who only cared about her own creature comforts! She wouldn't care anything about the plight of others and probably considered these wayward girls a complete disgrace to decent women everywhere. I can't see Ruth with Lovejoy either. He's completely beneath her station.
 
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Exactly! Ruth WAS only thinking of herself and she DIDN'T care about the plight of others. You see, running a house of ill repute for her own monetary gain was exploitation of others for her own benefit. She didn't care about the girls, just the money and the comforts that came with it.

As for Lovejoy, well, he might not seem so beneath Ruth's station if Ruth was facing either marrying him or having no money at all. He'd be better for her than the poor house or a factory. Besides, shortly after they were married, Lovejoy would probably 'accidentally' find himself poisoned and in a grave - having left all his money to Ruth who would then prey on someone else, and the cycle continues.....
 
May 27, 2007
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Hey Jason I always wondered why Ruth didn't marry somebody herself instead off force Rose to do it. Halfway Home for wayward girls. Here I thought she only did that after the Titanic sunk.

A twenty should do. Forty more like it. Although Jack could be cheap little hussy a dollar wouldn't do at all.
 
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Every word I quoted above came directly from two scenes in the movie, the scene where Rose goes over the edge and the scene following that in her stateroom. I just took some liberties with who said them and when. It's fun.
happy.gif


At least now we have a bit of background history on Ruth and Rose - which is what this thread is all about right?
 
May 27, 2007
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I know what you mean. That was fun
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I took a few liberties myself with the dialogue from Titanic. I even changed the words a bit.

Rose And Cal. They met at a Quatillion. Ruth took Rose and stuck a sign around Rose's neck that said "Will marry for Money." Cal walked up. He needed to get married because his pappy was gonna disinherit him if Pappy didn't get a Grandson. Rose did have a good set of hips on her. That was her major attraction in Cal's eyes. That and her family had social standing and connections.
 
Jul 9, 2000
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>>he certainly would have his #1 goon Lovejoy conduct an investigation into Rose's background to make sure there was not a whiff of scandal anywhere.<<

That or make sure it never came up.

>>Wouldn't the fact that her family, despite having a good name, was now flat broke have set off the warning bells in his head?<<

Or it might have him taking a look at things for some sort of opportunity.

>>Not a happy situation for anyone is it?<<

Probably not, but as I pointed out earlier, it would have been a marraige of convenience, and it wouldn't have been out of the question for one or even both to seek lovers to satisfy any need for recreational feel-good whoopee. The difference being that Rose would have been obliged to be a lot more discreet about it.

>>Hey maybe Cal was bi-sexual and played both sides of the street.<<

Which wasn't unheard of then even if it was never discussed in so-called "Polite Society" in any fashion other then muted whispers.

>>Actually $20.00 was alot of money back in 1912.<<

Adjusted for inflation, that would be about four or five hundred dollars today. Not a bad tip!
 
May 27, 2007
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Michael: "Not a bad tip!"

True enough when I think about it. Jack should of took the 20.00 when he had the chance.

Mommy Ruth would of hated the 20's with the knocking down of class divisions. I wonder how Ruth ended up after Titanic?
 
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sharon rutman

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I think Ruth was playing the role of the stoic, dignified widow for all it was worth. Also, there was no such thing as romantic love back then--rich people only married other rich people to enhance their social standing and add to the bank account some more. The poor also married to also get a strong back among the men and a nice dowery among the girls. A poor girl got married because daddy needed a new cow and some more chickens.

Gee, Jack was so noble when he refused the $20.00--had he survived that money could have gone quite a long way toward groceries and rent. But that also plays into my Marxist theme--a rich guy thinks he can buy the poor guy by throwing cash at him.
 
Mar 20, 2007
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'Also, there was no such thing as romantic love back then--rich people only married other rich people to enhance their social standing and add to the bank account some more.'

Absolute nonsense. People of all classes and backgrounds married for love back then, just as they do today. The evidence in support of this fact is simply overwhelming.
 
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