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The propellers being exposed

Discussion in 'Collision / Sinking Theories' started by LukeW17, Oct 4, 2017.

  1. Aaron_2016

    Aaron_2016 Member

    My edit timed out. Meant to say: If she had seen the two forward funnels falling before she broke she would not have described them as leaning, because once the support wires failed the funnels would simply fall. I believe she turned and looked at the ship when she broke because the explosive sounds got her attention and the bow broke and lurched down which appeared to her as the two forward funnels seeming to lean forward and then she broke completely as if cut with a knife down her decks and the stern quickly rose high into the air and then settled back.


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    Last edited: Oct 5, 2017
  2. Aaron_2016

    Aaron_2016 Member

    I am influenced by the survivors accounts. They take priority over all other analysis.

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  3. Kyle Naber

    Kyle Naber Member

    While the lights were burning, I saw her bow pointing down and the stern up; not in a perpendicular position, but considerable...I should think an angle of not as much as 45°...It was intact at that time.
    — First-class Passenger Arthur Godfrey Peuchen
     
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  4. Chris cameron

    Chris cameron Member

    Hmm, interesting survivor account.
     
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  5. Perhpas more important than the words in an alleged quotation is knowing where the quoted person, to whom he or she was speaking , and on what date as it.

    A newspaper quotation in 1912 has no special standing. Many times the famous quote was created out of whole cloth by some rewrite man "punching" up the story.

    Memories a fleeting and tend to conform to the accepted story as time passes.

    Even in 1912 most people enjoyed being famous if only for a movent or two.

    Quotes taken from transcripts of the two inquiries are probably the most accurate sources. Even so, there are obvious mistakes -- wrong words or words out of context for instance) -- in them.

    Another frequent mistake is to quote statements by the questioners as if they were statements of what took place when, in truth, they were just attempts to put a "spin" on the evidence.

    -- David G. Brown
     
  6. Aaron_2016

    Aaron_2016 Member


    It is believed that his lifeboat was rowing north westerly direction towards the lights of the other ship. This would mean his view of the Titanic sinking was limited. Survivors heard the first explosive sound before the bridge submerged and testified that the stern broke off and canted upwards with its lights still on. Major Peuchen I believe would have turned and looked at the ship's stern pointing up in the air after she buckled and her bow lights would have extinguished as the bow broke away and submerged. There was a second much stronger explosive sound and the stern settled back. I believe some had turned and looked at the Titanic when they heard the rumble and her bow lights disappeared. The stern rose high in the air and they assumed the ship was still intact and then there was a much larger rumble and the stern settled back. To some, this was the moment the ship appeared to break in two, and for others who were closer with a better vantage point it was simply the second stage of the break up as they had witnessed the bow break off and the stern cant upwards first, and then the bow lights went out and all that remained was the stern sticking up with her lights still blazing and then detaching completely and settling back. It's very easy for different survivors to see something very different depending on their distance, position, and when they turned and looked i.e. before the rumble, during, or after the rumble. Every second was valuable and I believe every position held importance, and possibly unique importance if they could see the ship from an angle others could not, and to see how the Titanic really broke apart and sank, which is why I leave no stone unturned when reading every available account, primarily from the official Inquiries.


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    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
  7. What I find interesting about some of the testimony of the break up, is when some survivors said certain things happened. For example, we have a few passengers who mention the falling, or leaning of funnels around the same time as the break up, or the mention of the port and starboard lights under the bridge. This has always struck me as odd because the higher angle break (at least 30 degrees) would have the funnels already broken off and well under water.
     
  8. Kyle Naber

    Kyle Naber Member

    Interpreted as, anyway.
     
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  9. Its true, we don't exactly know what they meant at the time.
     
  10. >>Survivors heard the first explosive sound before the bridge submerged and testified that the stern broke off and canted upwards with its lights still on. Major Peuchen I believe would have turned and looked at the ship's stern pointing up in the air after she buckled and her bow lights would have extinguished as the bow broke away and submerged. There was a second much stronger explosive sound and the stern settled back. I believe some had turned and looked at the Titanic when they heard the rumble and her bow lights disappeared. The stern rose high in the air and they assumed the ship was still intact and then there was a much larger rumble and the stern settled back. To some, this was the moment the ship appeared to break in two, and for others who were closer with a better vantage point it was simply the second stage of the break up as they had witnessed the bow break off and the stern cant upwards first, and then the bow lights went out and all that remained was the stern sticking up with her lights still blazing and then detaching completely and settling back.<<

    Which survivors?
    People who were in the same lifeboat mentioned that the ship broke while others not, a perfect example was lifeboat No. 13. While Ruth Becker and several others saw and talked about the break, Beesley did not saw it.

    What about these:

    Senator BOURNE. Did you see the ship sink?
    Mr. CROWE. I did, sir.
    Senator BOURNE. Would you explain in your own way how it appeared to you?
    Mr. CROWE. When we left the ship her head was down in the water probably several feet; I could not say the distance, or any angle.... After getting clear of the ship the lights were still burning very bright, but as we got away she seemed to go lower and lower, and she almost stood up perpendicular, and her lights went dim, and presently she broke clean in two, probably two-thirds of the length of the ship.
    Senator BOURNE. That is, two-thirds out of the water or two-thirds in the water?
    Mr. CROWE. Two-thirds in the water, one-third of the aft funnel sticking up.
    Senator BOURNE. How long did that third stick up?
    Mr. CROWE. After she floated back again.
    Senator BOURNE. She floated back?
    Mr. CROWE. She broke, and the after part floated back.
    Senator BOURNE. And the bow part, two-thirds of the ship, sank.
    Mr. CROWE. Yes, sir; then there was an explosion, and the aft part turned on end and sank.
    Senator BOURNE. Then you attribute the sinking to the explosion. You believe it would have floated, had it not been for the explosion?
    Mr. CROWE. That I can not say, sir.

    OSMAN: …After she got to a certain angle she exploded, broke in halves, and it seemed to me as if all the engines and everything that was in the after part slid out into the forward part, and the after part came up right again, and as soon as it came up right down it went again.
    SENATOR BURTON. What do you think those explosions were?

    BOURNE: When you came up from the water and got on this collapsible boat, did you see any evidence of the ship as she sunk, then?
    Collins: I did, sir; I saw her stern end.
    BOURNE: [Where were] you on the boat at the time that you were washed off the ship?
    Collins: Amidships, sir.
    BOURNE: You say you saw the stern end after you got on the collapsible boat?
    Collins: Yes, sir.
    BOURNE: Did you see the bow?
    Collins: No, sir.
    BOURNE: How far were you from the stern end of the ship when you came up and got into the collapsible boat, would you judge?
    Collins: We were about - I could not exactly state how far I was from the Titanic when I come up to the surface. I was not far, because her lights went out then. Her lights went out until the water almost got to amidships on her.
    BOURNE: As I understand, you were amidships on the bow as the ship sank?
    Collins: Yes, sir.
    BOURNE: You were washed off by a wave. You were under water, as you think, for two or three minutes (sic), and then swam 5 or 6 yards to the collapsible boat and got aboard - and got into the boat. The stern of the ship was still afloat?
    Collins: The stern of the ship was still afloat.
    BOURNE: The lights were burning?
    Collins. I came to the surface, sir, and I happened to look around and I just saw the lights and nothing more, and I looked in front of me and I saw the collapsible boat and I made for it.
    BOURNE: After you got in the boat, did you see any lights on the Titanic?
    Collins: No, sir.
    BOURNE: When you were in the water, after you came up above the surface of the water, you saw the lights on the Titanic?
    Collins: Just as I came up to the surface, sir. Her bow was in the water. She had not exploded then. Her bow was in the water, and I just looked around and saw the lights.
    BOURNE: Had she broken in two?
    Collins: Her bow was in the water and her stern was up y
    BOURNE: But you did not see any break? You did not think she had parted and broken in two?
    Collins: Her bow was in the water. She exploded in the water. She exploded once in the water, and her stern end was up out of the water; and with the explosion out of the water it blew her stern up.
    BOURNE: You saw it while it was up?
    Collins: Yes, sir; saw her stern up.
    BOURNE: How long?
    Collins: I am sure it floated for at least a minute.
    BOURNE: The lights were still burning?
    Collins: No, sir; the lights was out.
    BOURNE: How could you see it?
    Collins: I was on the collapsible boat at the time.
    BOURNE: If it was dark, how could you see?
    Collins: We were not too far off. I saw the white of the funnel. Then she turned over again, and down she went.
    Collins: I got on to the raft. I could see when I got on to the raft. I saw the stern of the boat, and I saw a mass of people and wreckage, and heard cries

    Senator SMITH. Did you see her go down?
    Mr. FLEET. No, sir.
    Senator SMITH. Why not?
    Mr. FLEET. The lights were out, and we were too far away.

    Maj. PEUCHEN. We commenced to hear signs of the breaking up of the boat.
    Senator SMITH. Of the Titanic?
    Maj. PEUCHEN. Of the Titanic. At first I kept my eyes watching the lights, as long as possible.
    Senator SMITH. From your position in the boat, did you face it?
    Maj. PEUCHEN. I was facing it at this time. I was rowing this way [indicating], and afterwards I changed to the other way. We heard a sort
    of a rumbling sound and the lights were still on at the rumbling sound,as far as my memory serves me; then a sort of an explosion, then another. It seemed to be one, two, or three rumbling sounds, then the lights went out.

    Senator SMITH. Could you see the Titanic?
    Mr. HITCHENS. I could not see her; not after the lights went out; no, sir.
    Senator SMITH. You could see the lights?
    Mr. HITCHENS. We could see the lights go out; yes, sir

    Senator BURTON. Did you see the boat sink?
    Mr. OLLIVER. I can not say that I saw it right plain; but to my imagination I did, because the lights went out before she went down.
    Senator BURTON. How did she sink?
    Mr. OLLIVER. She was well down at the head at first, when we got away from her at first, and to my idea she broke forward, and the afterpart
    righted itself and made another plunge and went right down. I fancied I saw her black form. It was dark, and I fancied I saw her black form going that way.
     
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  11. Senator FLETCHER. After you left her, her bow continued to go under?
    Mr. BULEY. Settled down; yes, sir. She went down as far as the after funnel, and then there was a little roar, as though the engines had
    rushed forward, and she s snapped in two, and the bow part went down and the afterpart came up and staid up five minutes before it went down.
    Senator FLETCHER. Was that perpendicular?
    Mr. BULEY. It was horizontal at first, and then went down.
    Senator FLETCHER. What do you me an by saying she snapped in two?
    Mr. BULEY. She parted in two.
    Senator FLETCHER. How do you know that?
    Mr. BULEY. Because we could see the afterpart afloat, and there was no forepart to it. I think she must have parted where the bunkers were. She parted at the last, because the afterpart of her settled out of the water horizontally after the other part went down. First of all you could see her propellers and everything. Her rudder was clear out of the water. You could hear the rush of the machinery, and she parted in two, and the afterpart settled down again, and we thought the afterpart would float altogether.
    Senator FLETCHER. The afterpart kind of righted up horizontally?
    Mr. BULEY. She uprighted herself for about five minutes, and then tipped over and disappeared.
    Senator FLETCHER. Did it go on the side?
    Mr. BULEY. No, sir; went down head foremost.
    Senator FLETCHER. That makes you believe the boat went in two?
    Mr. BULEY. Yes, sir. You could see she went in two, because we were quite near to her and could see her quite plainly.
    Senator FLETCHER. You were near and could see her quite plainly?
    Mr. BULEY. Yes, sir.
    Senator FLETCHER. Notwithstanding the darkness you could see the outline of the ship?
    Mr. BULEY. Yes, sir; we could see the outline of the ship.
    Senator FLETCHER. How far were you when she went down?
    Mr. BULEY. We were about 200 yards
    Senator BOURNE. Did you see the Titanic sink?
    Mr. ANDREWS. Well, sir, she must have been halfway sinking when I saw her.
    Senator BOURNE. Did you hear any explosion or noise?
    Mr. ANDREWS. I heard just a small sound, sir; it was not very loud, but just a small sound.
    Senator BOURNE. Did you think that the ship broke in two?
    Mr. ANDREWS. That I do not know, sir. When we got away in the boat at the last everything seemed to go to a black mist. All the lights seemed to go out and everything went black.
    Senator BOURNE. Did the lights go out altogether on the whole ship, or go out in part, and then the remainder go out?
    Mr. ANDREWS. They seemed to go out altogether, sir.

    Senator BOURNE. Did you see her sink?
    Mr. BRICE. I saw her sink.
    Senator BOURNE. Did she go bow down first?
    Mr. BRICE. Bow down first.
    Senator BOURNE. Did her stern rise in the air?
    Mr. BRICE. She went down almost perpendicular.
    Senator BOURNE. Were the lights still in the stern as she sank?
    Mr. BRICE. No, sir; she became a black mass before she made the final plunge.
    Senator BOURNE. You were about a quarter of a mile away?
    Mr. BRICE. Yes, sir.
    Senator BOURNE. Have you any idea whether she broke in two or not?
    Mr. BRICE. That I could not say, sir.

    Senator FLETCHER. Had you gotten as far as three-quarters of a mile before the lights went out on the Titanic?
    Mr. RAY. Yes, sir; we were about a mile off when the lights went out.

    Senator FLETCHER. Did you see the Titanic after you rowed away from where she was?
    Mr. EVANS. Yes, sir.
    Senator FLETCHER. How far did you go away?
    Mr. EVANS. About 200 yards.
    Senator SMITH. Could you see the boat well after you pulled away from her?
    Mr. EVANS. You could see her when the lights were clear, and then until she gave the final plunge.
    Senator FLETCHER. Did the boat go to pieces or come in two?
    Mr. EVANS. She parted between the third and fourth funnels.
    Senator FLETCHER. What makes you say that?
    Mr. EVANS. The foremost part was gone, and it seemed as if the engines were all gone out.
    Senator FLETCHER. You did see the forepart was all gone and you could see the stern come up horizontally?
    Mr. EVANS. Yes, sir.
    Senator FLETCHER. After the forepart had disappeared the stern came up and was horizontal with the surface of the water?
    Mr. EVANS. Yes, sir.
    Senator FLETCHER. And how much of the stern; up to what part of the ship; to the funnels?
    Mr. EVANS. From the after funnel to the ensign mast.
    Senator FLETCHER. About how much of the ship was afloat then, after the forepart had gone down?
    Mr. EVANS. I should say about 200 feet was afloat; that is, of the stern part.
    Senator FLETCHER. Could you see that clearly in the outline?
    Mr. EVANS. You could see that in the outline. Then she made a sudden plunge, and the stern went right up.
    Senator FLETCHER. Then she plunged forward and went right down?
    Mr. EVANS. Plunged forward, perpendicular, sir.
    Senator FLETCHER. How long was the stern afloat in that horizontal position?
    Mr. EVANS. About four or five minutes, I should judge.


    Mr. BRIGHT. I was 50 to 100 yards away, I would say, when she went down. I could not be exact, but about that.
    Senator FLETCHER. Did she break in two?
    Mr. BRIGHT. She broke in two. All at once she seemed to go up on end,you know, and come down about half way, and then the after part righted, itself again and the forepart had disappeared. A few seconds the after part did the same thing and went down. I could distinctly see the propellers - everything - out of the water.
    Senator BOURNE. The ship went down by her bow first and you could see the stern, and see the keel on the stern, could you?
    Mr. BRIGHT. Yes, sir. Then that righted itself again, got on an even keel again after that.
    Senator BOURNE. That is, the stern?
    Mr. BRIGHT. It settled down in the water on an even keel
    Senator BOURNE. But the bow had disappeared?
    Mr. BRIGHT. Yes, sir.
    Senator BOURNE. Hence, you assumed that she broke in two.
    Senator FLETCHER. Where did she break? Tell us about where she broke in two.
    Mr. BRIGHT. Well, it was as near the middle as anything, I should say;but it was dark.

    Senator SMITH. Were you where you could see the ship when she went down?
    Mr. BUCKLEY. Yes; I saw the lights just going out as she went down. It made a terrible noise, like thunder.

    Douglas
    In an incredibly short space of time, it seemed to me, the boat sank. I heard an explosion. I watched the boat go down, and the last picture to my mind is the immense mass of black against the starlit sky, and then nothingness.

    Ryerson
    Then suddenly, when we still seemed very near, we saw the ship was sinking rapidly. I was in the bow of the boat with my daughter and turned to see the great ship take a plunge toward the bow, the two forward funnels seemed to lean and then she seemed to break in half as if cut with a knife, and as the bow went under the lights went out; the stern stood up for several minutes,black against the stars, and then that, too, plunged down, and there was no sound for what seemed like hours

    Thayer: "There was such a big list to port that it seemed as if she would turn over on her side as she sank. In such a case we would not have had the slightest chance, so I told him I was going to jump out and slide down the davit ropes into the water and try to swim to the boats in the distance. I started to do this three times, and each time he caught hold of me and asked me to wait awhile. In a few minutes she straightened up on an even keel. We hurried back and stood by the rail about even with the second funnel. She started to shoot down fast at an angle of about thirty degrees."
    "I came up facing the ship, and one of her funnels seemed to be lifted off and fell towards me about 15 yards away, with a mass of sparks and steam coming out of it. I saw the ship in a sort of red glare, and it seemed to me that she broke in two just in front of the third funnel."

    Charlotte Collyer: "I shall never forget the terrible beauty of the Titanic at that moment. She was tilted forward, head down, with her first funnel partly under water."
    "The Titanic broke in two before my eyes. The fore part was already partly under the water. It wallowed over and disappeared instantly. The stern reared straight on end and stood poised on the ocean for many seconds."
     
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  12. Chris cameron

    Chris cameron Member

    From my recollection it was one or maybe two accounts that gave that description
    You beat me to the punch, I was about to post a shortened version of the accounts.
    One thing that I wish we could see is the visual examples the survivors demonstrated of how the ship was situated right before the break up . Also, some of the accounts are confusing as thy seem to present the the accounts out of order
     
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  13. I can't like this enough times. I really....really wish we could see the visual cues given by survivors. Sadly I think these are lost to time.