The Public Places in end of the sinking!


Paulo Renato

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May 3, 2012
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I've think about the fact that Andrews wait to die in the 1st Class Smoking Room. And i got a question, he's the only to do this? I think that some people of first class after the boats went away, had stayed on these places, (i guess they already knew his destiny).
This could happen with Third and Second too.
Maybe i'm wrong, but don't really think that everyone in the ship, went to the boat deck or ran to the stern!

Think how terrific is wait to die, knowing what's gonna happen with you , and couldn't do nothing to save your own life...
 
Jan 6, 2005
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Paulo, reactions to the sinking were very, very individual. There was the gallantry of Benjamin Guggenheim, who changed from warm outdoor clothing to evening dress, and is believed to have said, "We are dressed in our best and are prepared to go down like gentlemen." There were people who tried to rush the lifeboats. It is said that some passengers remained or returned to their staterooms and waited for the end. And there were people who jumped. Most of them died - some immediately of heart attacks after hitting the icy water, some of hypothermia that took a while. A very, very few fought the water successfully, getting picked up by lifeboats or remaining atop a capsized collapsible boat until rescued. There was, in short, every kind of reaction you can imagine. Even the fictional Caledon Hockley in James Cameron's Titanic probably had a real-life counterpart - someone who thought he could buy his way into a lifeboat, though that's conjecture. Some women, like Ida Straus, assured of a place in a lifeboat, would not leave their husbands, and many husbands refused to go on lifeboats because all the women could not be saved.

So, there was every possible reaction, and that is part of what makes April 15, 1912 a night to remember.

Andrews' reaction was probably the result of a great deal of personal pain and perhaps some guilt. He knew the ship better than anyone else aboard, and knew exactly what was going wrong. Worse, he knew many ways in which the ship could have been safer, ways that had been vetoed by the people in charge at IMM. He would also have realized that the system of watertight bulkheads was a bad joke; it probably contributed to the fast rate of sinking, because water was concentrated in the bow, pulling Titanic down at the head and sinking her quickly. He was a very moral man, and it's my belief that many of his last thoughts were about all the compromises he had had to make to get Titanic built and keep his job - compromises that were now contributing to the scale of the disaster. At the end, when the water engulfed him, he might even have been glad to go.
 

Paulo Renato

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May 3, 2012
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That's Right! But i'm focused on the people who stayed in the public places, like the lounge, how they had feeling! (Imagine Andrews in the Smoking Room when the ship cracks in half, that's not a good situation to be.)

I feel sad for Andrews, he assumed a guilty , that it was less of him than of others. But i know how he was sad about the sinking, and if he enter in a lifeboat the blame would be extremely bigger, he spended time and work at the ship! How could he live after , barely-alive - barely-died! I think he was really glad to die that night...
 

Tad G. Fitch

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Dec 13, 1999
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Hello all,
There actually is very strong evidence that Thomas Andrews didn't remain in the Smoking Room after he was seen there. In fact, the sighting of him there was much earlier in the sinking than is typically believed, and he was seen after this, helping those on deck, throwing deck chairs overboard, and later on the Bridge. The evidence for how he actually died is compelling, and quite different than previously portrayed. We have a whole appendix discussing this in detail in our book, 'On A Sea of Glass, The Life & Loss of RMS Titanic.'

Take care,
Tad
 

Scott Mills

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Tad,

I was under the impression that a steward, his name escapes me, saw Andrews at 2:10 and said to him "aren't you even going to make a try for it?" To which he got no reply, and shortly after the ship foundered.

Hard to believe you'd get the time wrong, given that the ship foundered so soon after.
 

Tad G. Fitch

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Dec 13, 1999
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Hi Scott,
The steward in question was John Stewart, and in his account, he never mentions 2:10 am as the time when he saw Andrews. That time was mentioned by author Shan Bullock in the 1912 book 'Thomas Andrews, Shipbuilder'. Interestingly, Bullock doesn't even allege this was the last time Andrews was seen, and goes on to mention several sightings of Andrews after the sighting in the Smoking Room.

Stewart is often described as being one of those rescued from the water by No. 14 due to a comment in the inquiry, but another crewmember testified that he was in Boat No. 15, and this is borne out by Stewart having told his daughter that he boarded the 'last boat' from the deck, which Boat No. 15 was at the aft starboard side of the ship. That being the case, Stewart's sighting had to be prior to 1:40, when No. 15 left.

In our book, we describe the eyewitness accounts of sightings of Andrews after he was seen in the Smoking Room by Stewart, including some very strong evidence by a survivor who was on the ship until the last who saw Andrews and what happened to him, and this is confirmed by an account from one of Andrews' friends, who apparently interviewed survivors on the Lapland, hoping to find out what happened to him, and spoke with this same witness. All of this and more specifics are contained in the book, but I don't want to spoil it all here.

Kind regards,
Tad
 

Scott Mills

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Jul 10, 2008
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Hi Scott,
The steward in question was John Stewart, and in his account, he never mentions 2:10 am as the time when he saw Andrews. That time was mentioned by author Shan Bullock in the 1912 book 'Thomas Andrews, Shipbuilder'. Interestingly, Bullock doesn't even allege this was the last time Andrews was seen, and goes on to mention several sightings of Andrews after the sighting in the Smoking Room.

Stewart is often described as being one of those rescued from the water by No. 14 due to a comment in the inquiry, but another crewmember testified that he was in Boat No. 15, and this is borne out by Stewart having told his daughter that he boarded the 'last boat' from the deck, which Boat No. 15 was at the aft starboard side of the ship. That being the case, Stewart's sighting had to be prior to 1:40, when No. 15 left.

In our book, we describe the eyewitness accounts of sightings of Andrews after he was seen in the Smoking Room by Stewart, including some very strong evidence by a survivor who was on the ship until the last who saw Andrews and what happened to him, and this is confirmed by an account from one of Andrews' friends, who apparently interviewed survivors on the Lapland, hoping to find out what happened to him, and spoke with this same witness. All of this and more specifics are contained in the book, but I don't want to spoil it all here.

Kind regards,
Tad

Tad,

Very interesting indeed! It is amazing wading my way into history research (I'm a Political Scientist by trade) makes one aware of how much we depend on what others publish! Something published in 1912, which attributes a time not attributed by the witness, caries the assumption of truth for generations--my own research is on this phenomena actually, specifically the social character of memory and how "historical" narratives depend on the communities doing the remembering and always carry with them an absolute ontological status.

In any case, would you mind PMing me (or you can do it here if you want the plug!) the details of your book? I'd like to read it.

Best,

Scott
 

Arun Vajpey

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Jul 8, 1999
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Hi Scott, sorry to barge in but rather than waiting for bits of information, may I suggest that you buy the book ON A SEA OF GLASS? It clearly and logically explains so many things that we often wonder and is by far the best account of the Titanic. As Tad (who perhaps might hesitate in promoting his own book too much right here) says, the appendices themselves are a treasure chest of information. The book is worth 10 times its marked price and is a cracking good read.
 

Tad G. Fitch

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Dec 13, 1999
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Scott, thank you for your interest. I will send you a private message with details on how to get the book. You are correct, there are many stories and details in the study of history that have been passed down and repeated in book after book of historical events, and then you go back to the source material and other accounts, and find out the story was a misinterpretation all along. We found a number of instances like this while researching and writing our book.

Arun, thank you kindly for the words regarding our book. We hope that everyone enjoys it as much as you have.

All my best,
Tad
 

Scott Mills

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Jul 10, 2008
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Tad,

I received your PM. Thanks very much, since I want to read it now, ship from the UK I must! You guys should really self publish a e-reader version of the book! ;)

Also, just to add to the above conversation, the current world record for human free diving is two feet short of 1000. Just as a way to say that pressure at depth won't necessarily kill you, unless you are also breathing gas.

Cheers,

Scott
 

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