Matt Smith
Member
I think that he will. He seems to have the same idea of the Titanic that we do just with the money to take into action.
The remnants of the Reading and Writing room and lounge
- Thread starter Tarn Stephanos
- Start date
Matt Simons
Member
I would like to see the lounge;
R/W room
A La Carte Resturant
Smoking room (they probably didn't survive, but there were lots of stained glass windows in this room)
Andrew's stateroom would be awesome to explore, there could possibly be info on the Titanic still laying in the remnants of his room.
and the other two parlor suites.
If they could find these passengers rooms they would be awsme to explore;
J.J. Astor
Molly Brown
Benjamin Guggenheim
Lady Duff Gordon and Sir Cosmo
the Countess of Rothes
The Strausses
Marie Jerwan
and Ruth Becker
Probably alot to ask though.
R/W room
A La Carte Resturant
Smoking room (they probably didn't survive, but there were lots of stained glass windows in this room)
Andrew's stateroom would be awesome to explore, there could possibly be info on the Titanic still laying in the remnants of his room.
and the other two parlor suites.
If they could find these passengers rooms they would be awsme to explore;
J.J. Astor
Molly Brown
Benjamin Guggenheim
Lady Duff Gordon and Sir Cosmo
the Countess of Rothes
The Strausses
Marie Jerwan
and Ruth Becker
Probably alot to ask though.
Dan Cherry
Member
Matt expressed interest in:
The lounge;
This area has been flattened by the effects of the sinking. The boat decking rests on the A-deck, which also slopes sharply toward the boiler rooms at the aft end of the bow section. Many components from this room, from the fireplace mantle statue, to pieces of windows and wall sconces, are scattered in the debris field.
R/W room
Only the forward alcove of this room remains, and it appears as if the boat deck room has collapsed down into this alcove. Perhaps an ROV could be used to peek in to see what might be visible in this small space.
A La Carte Resturant - a dicey venture. Much of the stern in this area has severe structural damage and
Smoking room (they probably didn't survive, but there were lots of stained glass windows in this room)
This room was destroyed in the sinking. Pieces of the room are scattered around the stern section and in the debris field, including remnants of stained glass windows, red and blue floor tiles, wall sconces, heater grills and light fixtures.
Andrew's stateroom would be awesome to explore, there could possibly be info on the Titanic still laying in the remnants of his room.
His room was destroyed in the breakup.
If they could find these passengers rooms they would be awesome to explore;
J.J. Astor -
difficult to say if their cabin is accessible. It is close to the breakup and pancaked deck area
Molly Brown -
last I understood, it was not entirely known what cabin she occupied.
Benjamin Guggenheim -
this area of the wreck is no longer intact.
Lady Duff Gordon and Sir Cosmo -
the forward A-deck cabin remnants were explored by James Cameron and crew in 2001.
the Countess of Rothes -
C-deck forward 1st class wasn't really explored in 2001, and since the Countess' cabin was located just forward of the GSC, this is a likely a viable room to check with an ROV. The general area of her cabin was glimpsed by the ROVs in the expedition. Brass beds were spotted in this vicinity.
The Strauses -
this part of the ship was briefly looked at - the deck at this point begins to collapse, but Cameron and crew got close to the area near their sitting room, and the purser's office just forward of the Straus cabin.
Marie Jerwan -
like the Becker's cabin, Jerwan's nearby cabin within the stern is located where there is severe structural damage.
and Ruth Becker -
the stern is a tangled mass of broken decking and debris - the shell plating in this area bends far away from the hull.
The lounge;
This area has been flattened by the effects of the sinking. The boat decking rests on the A-deck, which also slopes sharply toward the boiler rooms at the aft end of the bow section. Many components from this room, from the fireplace mantle statue, to pieces of windows and wall sconces, are scattered in the debris field.
R/W room
Only the forward alcove of this room remains, and it appears as if the boat deck room has collapsed down into this alcove. Perhaps an ROV could be used to peek in to see what might be visible in this small space.
A La Carte Resturant - a dicey venture. Much of the stern in this area has severe structural damage and
Smoking room (they probably didn't survive, but there were lots of stained glass windows in this room)
This room was destroyed in the sinking. Pieces of the room are scattered around the stern section and in the debris field, including remnants of stained glass windows, red and blue floor tiles, wall sconces, heater grills and light fixtures.
Andrew's stateroom would be awesome to explore, there could possibly be info on the Titanic still laying in the remnants of his room.
His room was destroyed in the breakup.
If they could find these passengers rooms they would be awesome to explore;
J.J. Astor -
difficult to say if their cabin is accessible. It is close to the breakup and pancaked deck area
Molly Brown -
last I understood, it was not entirely known what cabin she occupied.
Benjamin Guggenheim -
this area of the wreck is no longer intact.
Lady Duff Gordon and Sir Cosmo -
the forward A-deck cabin remnants were explored by James Cameron and crew in 2001.
the Countess of Rothes -
C-deck forward 1st class wasn't really explored in 2001, and since the Countess' cabin was located just forward of the GSC, this is a likely a viable room to check with an ROV. The general area of her cabin was glimpsed by the ROVs in the expedition. Brass beds were spotted in this vicinity.
The Strauses -
this part of the ship was briefly looked at - the deck at this point begins to collapse, but Cameron and crew got close to the area near their sitting room, and the purser's office just forward of the Straus cabin.
Marie Jerwan -
like the Becker's cabin, Jerwan's nearby cabin within the stern is located where there is severe structural damage.
and Ruth Becker -
the stern is a tangled mass of broken decking and debris - the shell plating in this area bends far away from the hull.
Parks Stephenson
Member
The interesting thing about the Lounge is that the deck over the forward starboard corner has disappeared in recent years. There's a jumble of...something...there, not sure if it's the remains of the collapsed deck or the contents inside. It might be worth a closer look if an ROV is already back in that area and can be easily diverted for a few minutes; otherwise, there's not enough potential return to dedicate part of a dive exploring this.
The deck over the R&WR alcove has completely fallen inward. The arch of the forward window can be seen and there is some "white" picked up by the camera's lights...whether this is something reflecting the light or simply white-painted is unknown. The alcove itself is intact...it's everything aft of the alcove that slopes away toward BR#2. It is possible that some of the panelling on the starboard wall of the alcove might have survived...it is here that the "white" has been glimpsed. One of the leaded (emphasis on "leaded") round window frames from the alcove can be glimpsed through a corrosion hole in the deck farther aft on the "slope." I expect that the alcove will be explored during this summer's expedition.
There are lots of things in the structures around the base of the #2 funnel that bear closer examination, too, including a very unusual electrical fixture of unknown function.
Parks
The deck over the R&WR alcove has completely fallen inward. The arch of the forward window can be seen and there is some "white" picked up by the camera's lights...whether this is something reflecting the light or simply white-painted is unknown. The alcove itself is intact...it's everything aft of the alcove that slopes away toward BR#2. It is possible that some of the panelling on the starboard wall of the alcove might have survived...it is here that the "white" has been glimpsed. One of the leaded (emphasis on "leaded") round window frames from the alcove can be glimpsed through a corrosion hole in the deck farther aft on the "slope." I expect that the alcove will be explored during this summer's expedition.
There are lots of things in the structures around the base of the #2 funnel that bear closer examination, too, including a very unusual electrical fixture of unknown function.
Parks
Mark Draper
Member
Parks, sorry to disappoint you, but given what was shown in Return to Titanic on the NGC in June last year, the avcove is flattened. It's very esy to tell from seeingthe shape of the deck where the tipped over davit for LB 8 is. My guess is the height may be no more than a few feet spacing between the two collapsed decks.
Yeah, the Smoking Room on the stern would be nice to explore, though not much will be identifiable. Hmm, in looking at Roy Mengot's wreck model, one area to probably look at is the library on the starboard side, where the second class open promanade was on C deck. I would also like to se a closer look at that wagon wheel chandelier that is stuck in the crumbled walls near the mast.
Another good morph scene to try out would be the enterance house on the boat deck of the stern. It's the only recognizable feature to identify the boat deck, aside from the davit on the port side. There's a small staircase inside that structure that may be accessible, or the elevator shaft.
There may be points of entry on port side where the hull has peeled out (in Roy's model it's the area where D deck has a notch cut into it from implossion. The decks here, that used to site under the aft well deck are intact and if explored who knows what might be found. There's a clean space here to land on so sending an ROV inside would be cool
Yeah, the Smoking Room on the stern would be nice to explore, though not much will be identifiable. Hmm, in looking at Roy Mengot's wreck model, one area to probably look at is the library on the starboard side, where the second class open promanade was on C deck. I would also like to se a closer look at that wagon wheel chandelier that is stuck in the crumbled walls near the mast.
Another good morph scene to try out would be the enterance house on the boat deck of the stern. It's the only recognizable feature to identify the boat deck, aside from the davit on the port side. There's a small staircase inside that structure that may be accessible, or the elevator shaft.
There may be points of entry on port side where the hull has peeled out (in Roy's model it's the area where D deck has a notch cut into it from implossion. The decks here, that used to site under the aft well deck are intact and if explored who knows what might be found. There's a clean space here to land on so sending an ROV inside would be cool
Parks Stephenson
Member
Mark,
I did analysis work on the NOAA images from 2004 and I can assure you that the R&WR alcove is relatively intact (as of last September, anyway). As I mentioned above, the entire frame for the forward window can be seen from above, which would give you an indication of the height of the remaining walls. The Boat Deck sags along the outboard edge in the vicinity of the davit as you described, but the sag is localised and doesn't appear to extend as far inboard as the R&WR.
Since you mentioned it, I can also tell you that the 2nd-class library and entrance are absolutely flattened, as though a big foot stepped on the entire area. The walls have collapsed inward on themselves and lay facing up...a distinct change of the wreck since the original ANGUS imagery. That area of the stern used to have some interesting landmarks, but now a lot of it has settled in on itself. Even the fragment of A Deck that surrounds the base of the mainmast has developed a large sink hole that will, in time, fracture that deck into pieces.
The 2nd-class entrance on Boat deck has also fallen in on itself. It's barely recognisable now. The elevator machinery room is titled alarmingly to port...I expect that its weight will cause it to collapse completely to the deck, fracturing the machinery inside (which can now be viewed because the overhead -- which was planked with cheap pine -- is completely gone). When it goes, it will take the remnants of the entrance housing with it. As it is, it has already pulled the entrance house out of shape, causing one entire wall (with two window openings) to collapse. As far as accessing either the stairwell or the elevator shaft...there's no way.
To what "wagon wheel" chandelier are you referring? The NOAA imagery shows a distorted Smoking Room chandelier in the vicinity of the mainmast, lying entangled around an Elkington silver-plated coffee pot of a style that has never before been imaged. Is that the one you're talking about?
Parks
I did analysis work on the NOAA images from 2004 and I can assure you that the R&WR alcove is relatively intact (as of last September, anyway). As I mentioned above, the entire frame for the forward window can be seen from above, which would give you an indication of the height of the remaining walls. The Boat Deck sags along the outboard edge in the vicinity of the davit as you described, but the sag is localised and doesn't appear to extend as far inboard as the R&WR.
Since you mentioned it, I can also tell you that the 2nd-class library and entrance are absolutely flattened, as though a big foot stepped on the entire area. The walls have collapsed inward on themselves and lay facing up...a distinct change of the wreck since the original ANGUS imagery. That area of the stern used to have some interesting landmarks, but now a lot of it has settled in on itself. Even the fragment of A Deck that surrounds the base of the mainmast has developed a large sink hole that will, in time, fracture that deck into pieces.
The 2nd-class entrance on Boat deck has also fallen in on itself. It's barely recognisable now. The elevator machinery room is titled alarmingly to port...I expect that its weight will cause it to collapse completely to the deck, fracturing the machinery inside (which can now be viewed because the overhead -- which was planked with cheap pine -- is completely gone). When it goes, it will take the remnants of the entrance housing with it. As it is, it has already pulled the entrance house out of shape, causing one entire wall (with two window openings) to collapse. As far as accessing either the stairwell or the elevator shaft...there's no way.
To what "wagon wheel" chandelier are you referring? The NOAA imagery shows a distorted Smoking Room chandelier in the vicinity of the mainmast, lying entangled around an Elkington silver-plated coffee pot of a style that has never before been imaged. Is that the one you're talking about?
Parks
Parks Stephenson
Member
And just to keep things in perspective, there is no intention of visiting either the stern section or debris field during this summer's expedition. All dives are dedicated to the bow section.
Parks
Parks
Mark Draper
Member
The wagon wheel chandelier is the one you mentioned. You can see it in the 1998 mosaic, and also this link http://home.flash.net/~rfm/STERN/stern.html just below the "two windows" in the main overview, or look at the "Two Windows" page to see it
The library has collapsed? Using the link above to Roy's model, how does the stern look, more specifically, where are the holes that have opened up located?
As for the bow section, how bad is the damage to the roof over the lounge where the decks compressed together? The NGC documentary "Return to Titanic" shows a small amount of the roof on the port side. Three smal holes are visible, other than that, the roof looks sagged a bit.
The library has collapsed? Using the link above to Roy's model, how does the stern look, more specifically, where are the holes that have opened up located?
As for the bow section, how bad is the damage to the roof over the lounge where the decks compressed together? The NGC documentary "Return to Titanic" shows a small amount of the roof on the port side. Three smal holes are visible, other than that, the roof looks sagged a bit.
Parks Stephenson
Member
Mark,
What Roy calls a "wagon wheel chandelier" is not a chandelier at all, but rather the "lazy susan," or turntable, for one of the cranes. That artefact is gone now...I believe that RMST recovered it some time back. There are at least two of those same artefacts out in the debris field, one still inside one of the cranes (it can be seen through the open door in the crane's base).
I am answering your questions from my notes taken during my analysis effort for NOAA last year. To try and describe every detail needed to update Roy's model -- especially when talking about something as complex as the stern wreckage -- would be a major effort and something that I can't involve myself in right now. We're talking about documenting 20 years' worth of decay...I can't do that in a few words either on an online forum or across e-mail. The NOAA images will become public domain sometime later this year, at which time Roy will have all the reference material he will need to update his model.
The roof over the Lounge on the aft "slope" of the bow section has corrosion holes opening up in various spots, just like the more horizontal sections of the Boat Deck. A few holes have opened up over the R&WR (allowing us a glimpse of one of the round windows lying on top of the debris) and the portion of the deck over the forward starboard corner of the Lounge has disappeared. There are smaller holes throughout, but those are the major openings that I noted.
Unfortunately, I did not see "Return to Titanic," but it sounds like the three holes you mention are the same ones I noted over the R&WR.
Parks
What Roy calls a "wagon wheel chandelier" is not a chandelier at all, but rather the "lazy susan," or turntable, for one of the cranes. That artefact is gone now...I believe that RMST recovered it some time back. There are at least two of those same artefacts out in the debris field, one still inside one of the cranes (it can be seen through the open door in the crane's base).
I am answering your questions from my notes taken during my analysis effort for NOAA last year. To try and describe every detail needed to update Roy's model -- especially when talking about something as complex as the stern wreckage -- would be a major effort and something that I can't involve myself in right now. We're talking about documenting 20 years' worth of decay...I can't do that in a few words either on an online forum or across e-mail. The NOAA images will become public domain sometime later this year, at which time Roy will have all the reference material he will need to update his model.
The roof over the Lounge on the aft "slope" of the bow section has corrosion holes opening up in various spots, just like the more horizontal sections of the Boat Deck. A few holes have opened up over the R&WR (allowing us a glimpse of one of the round windows lying on top of the debris) and the portion of the deck over the forward starboard corner of the Lounge has disappeared. There are smaller holes throughout, but those are the major openings that I noted.
Unfortunately, I did not see "Return to Titanic," but it sounds like the three holes you mention are the same ones I noted over the R&WR.
Parks
Mark Robert Hopkins
Member
Impressive. Quite a bit of information, supplemented by pictures. Very nice!
Mark Draper
Member
Well Park,s the model to make a more recent version of is mine
I'm using Roy's model as a template for the basics, though my model will represent Titanic as she looked last year
The bow section is basically finished, except for the aft end of the bow section not published in the book or NG magazine. I'll email you a photo of my model
The three holes I mentioned are near the port side, in the same horizontal line where the compass tower used to sit.
The three holes I mentioned are near the port side, in the same horizontal line where the compass tower used to sit.
Tarn Stephanos
Member
Jiminey crickets, I daresay there will be much to see!
I hope we can catch a glimpse down the corridor that connected the A deck foyer with the lounge...along the corridor, some sugget there was a revolving door- others insist there was no such door....An examination of that corridor should give us the answer...
The fact wood survvied in the Gymnasium on the Boat deck gives me hope there will be some survvinmg paneling on the R&W room on A deck....
Most everthing that was not made of wood (and was not sucked out during the sinking) should still be in the r&w room and lounge..The lack of debris at the lip of the exposed Boiler room # 2 tells me very little debris has fallen from above.....
regards
Tarn Stephanos
I hope we can catch a glimpse down the corridor that connected the A deck foyer with the lounge...along the corridor, some sugget there was a revolving door- others insist there was no such door....An examination of that corridor should give us the answer...
The fact wood survvied in the Gymnasium on the Boat deck gives me hope there will be some survvinmg paneling on the R&W room on A deck....
Most everthing that was not made of wood (and was not sucked out during the sinking) should still be in the r&w room and lounge..The lack of debris at the lip of the exposed Boiler room # 2 tells me very little debris has fallen from above.....
regards
Tarn Stephanos
Mark Draper
Member
That's a good idea Tarn
Some of the door may remain, but who knows as you said if a door was really put there.
robin ayotte
Member
what about the 3rd class, have they been down there yet and if so what have they found.
Mark Draper
Member
Just the general room under the foward well deck. In GotA we see the bar with the tap dispencer, but not much else to define the room.
I'd like to see Scotland Road on E deck. I'd also like to see the Purser's Office on C deck, which Ken's report mentioned. Another good idea to try is send an ROV into the bathroom skylight behind funnel 1, and hopefully look into the rooms of the Titanic's officers and see what may be in the rooms. No one ever wnet in there yet, so it'd be nice to check out
I'd like to see Scotland Road on E deck. I'd also like to see the Purser's Office on C deck, which Ken's report mentioned. Another good idea to try is send an ROV into the bathroom skylight behind funnel 1, and hopefully look into the rooms of the Titanic's officers and see what may be in the rooms. No one ever wnet in there yet, so it'd be nice to check out
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