Third class cabins on G deck

[Rolf Vonk]

Hi folks,

I don't know what to think about the third class compartments on G deck. When I look at the most recent shipplans, I can't find any third class room in the forward compartment on G deck. That section (the third compartment) is only called "Third class open berths". I also have another shipplan of Titanic. It's fairly recent and it shows some third class cabins in the third compartment on G deck. The aft third class compartment on G deck shows cabins on both shipplans. So my question is: were there third class cabins in the forward compartment on G-deck??

Note: In Cameron's Titanic Jack Dawson searched for his cabin G 60 in the forward third class compartment on G deck. That can't be correct when there were cabins in that part. There was not enough room for 60 cabins in that area.

I hope someone could help me!!!

Greetings Rollie

 

[Michael H. Standart]

Yes, there were cabins, sometimes sleeping eight to a room. The 3rd class open space was on D deck and it was pretty much a dormitory type of arrangement for singles. The 3rd Class open space on G deck is indicated on the ET plans as being on the port side just aft of 1st class baggage. In the Eaton and Haas plans, this same area is presented as sectioned off into cabins. An interesting sidenote was that this space could be rapidly converted over for cargo.

If you happen to have a copy of the Shipbuilder Souveneir Edition articals, that may be of some use to you in answering your questions regarding accommadation.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart

 

[Michael H. Standart]

A minor correction/clearification; it was the Dorm space on D Deck which could be converted to stow cargo.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart

 

[Lester Mitcham]

Greetings Rollie & Michael,

Rollie, I think you may have been confused by some incorrect Titainc deck plans. In these and on the Olympic the 3rd compartment aft on G-deck was: 3rd Class open berths. The same for a small area on the portside aft of the 1st Class baggage area. On Titanic both of these areas became rooms; I think 26 in the larger area and 10 in the smaller area. If you look at the plans in Eaton & Haas: Titanic Triumph & Tragedy you will see this. I also refer you to page 74 for the numbering of the 3rd Class rooms. There was no such room as G 60. The rooms were in sections. Section G was on F-deck. It is my understanding that room 60 was in section E.
Having said that there were some rooms near that after end og G-deck that had "G" numbers - G-1 to G-40, excluding G-13. They could be used as 2nd Class, hence their numbering.

Michael, the 3rd Class Open Space on D-deck was a promenade area; which you say could be used for cargo. Can you please cite a reference with regard to this possible usage?

Lester

 

[Michael H. Standart]

If I recall, it was the Shipbuilder. This is another one where I may have my wires crossed though. It's been one of those days. The Eaton and Haas plans simply call it 3rd Class Open Space.

Interesting commentary on the times that the 3rd class promanade doubled as a cargo hold.

Time to hit the books again befor I swallow another boot. Thanks.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart

 

[Lester Mitcham]

Hi Michael,

Both the Shipbuilder and the E&H plans show the area on D-deck as: "3rd Class Open Space". There is a description of the area on page 102 of the Shipbuilder. Also if you look at the deck plans you will see that access to the forward well deck (which was also a 3rd Class promenade area) was from Scotland Road through the D-deck area. To use an area that passengers had to pass through to store cargo? I doubt it. Do you have a source reference for the idea?

Lester

 

[Michael H. Standart]

What I had in mind specifically was that open space on D deck...which incidentally had a cargo hatch and what is described as a bunker hatch going right through it. Beyond that, I can't recall the source I picked it up from. That's why I need to do some more digging.

I would have to wonder about passangers using it as a thoroughfare IF the line decided to stow cargo there. A thoroughfare to where? I'm looking at the Eaton and Haas plans at the moment, and what is shown ahead of this space are the Firemens berthing, lav and washroom as well as a storeroom in the forepeak. The bulkhead doesn't appear to have any doors going through it to offer direct access.

I did some fact checking in the Shipbuilder articals on the Dorm(For lack of a better word) on G deck which on the Olympic, was fitted for 164 people. On the Titanic, it was redone as cabins as per the Eaton and Haas plans.

I just looked over the plans I have fron Titanic, The Official Story and the G deck space here is presented as open berths. In the Eaton and Haas plans, they are shown as being sectioned off into cabins.

Perhaps you can offer a suggestion as to which I should regard as more reliable. Or where I can get some that are more accurate if the answer is None Of The Above.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart

 

[Rolf Vonk]

Dear Michael,

You were talking about the Eaton and Haas plans. Well, I don't have at ones disposel, but I do have some official designs of the Titanic plan. The plan is not a reconstruction or a copy of other deckplans. In the plan there are third class rooms in the forward part of G deck (not in the third class area behind the first class bagageroom). I don't know if that area had room for 164 passengers like on the Olympic, because there are no berth numbers given like on the other decks. In that plan, the third class area on D deck is simply called "third class open space". The third class staircases runs trough it. So I guess it was not used for bagage. The space is connected with a staircase to the sailors accomodation by a door.
The plans also show that the aft third class cabinarea on G deck could be used as cargo hold. I think that the plans had also showed the same by D deck when that area could also be used as cargo hold.

Greetings Rollie

 

[Lester Mitcham]

Michael,

There are no problems with the bunker and No 2 hatches. They passed down through the deck. The same at the after-end of the ship where the No 4 hatch passed down be it alongside rather than through the 2nd Class public rooms.

You say: "A thoroughfare to where?" I repeat what I said before: "if you look at the deck plans you will see that access to the forward well deck (which was also a 3rd Class promenade area) was from Scotland Road through the D-deck area."

If you go any of your plans and you will see at the forward end of Scotland Road adjacant to the forward 3rd Class entrance and Lavatories two set of stairs that lead up into the 3rd Class Open Space, at the after end of that area. At the forward end of the 3rd Class Open Space there are two more sets of stairs which also lead up. They emerge on C-deck near the Firemen's Mess and Crew Galley, with doors that lead out onto the forward well deck; on which are located the bunker and No 2 hatch covers, as well as two cranes.

As I said to Rollie many Titanic decks plans are wrong because they are often copied from the Olympic/Shipbuilder plans. So in general you should go with E&H. If you look at little further aft on F-deck the whole Turkish bath area is different.

I hope that this helps.

Lester

 

[Lester Mitcham]

Hello Michael,

Access to the areas forward to the 3rd Class Open Space. Go the E&H or Shipbuilder plans for D-deck. Inboard from the Firemen's Washroom and Lavatory and two set of steps; they lead up to C-deck near the Crew Galley and Firemen's Mess. There are also two athwartships stairways immediately forward of the 3rd Class Open Space; one goes up to C-deck the other down to E-deck. On the D-deck level there is a door into the 3rd Class Open Space.

In addition to these there are the spiral firemen's stairways (2 of them) which descend from D-deck all the way down to the Tank Top, with access from decks E, F and G.

All 5 of these stairways are aft of the No 1 Hold. You may see them more easily in the Shipbuilder plans, which are larger and easier to follow with regard to this issue.

Hope this all helps.

Lester

 

[Michael H. Standart]

Hi Lester, It should. I have the Shipbuilder articals by way of Maxtone Graham's olympic and Titanic as well as Mark Warrens' reprint. Hopefully, some of the platew which are loose didn't get lost in my pile. I really need to re-organise my library.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart

 

[Lester Mitcham]

Hi Michael,

It occurs to me that perhaps all you wanted was to know about access between the forward 3rd Class area and the crew's quarters. I can see doors on C-deck; and as mentioned on D-deck; but nothing as is be expected on E or F-decks.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Lester

 

[Michael H. Standart]

Hi Lester...again...BINGO! Perhaps the idea was maintaining some degree of segragation. There were some health regulations that were an issue in regards to steerage. (Only, there were plenty of areas where they could mingle openly with the crew, were there not?)

Lots of possibilities there, but what it added up to for third class was making their spaces a confusing rat warren to try to figure out. Unlike the two of us, they didn't have the luxury of four days to figure it out when everything went sour on them.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart