Third Class on Edeck


Ben Lemmon

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Feb 6, 2008
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From research (and the thoughtful nudges of the experts here at ET) I know that the Sages were on E-deck. However, it has been brought to my attention that these large Third Class families were separated, with women and children often in the stern, and older boys, their fathers, and single men housed in the bow. At what age were the boys required to go with their fathers, and [perhaps] older brothers? I would like to know because I wonder where a 9-year old would have been housed. Also, were the families allowed to go to each others cabins during the day? Any information on this subject would be greatly appreciated.
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Ben Lemmon

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I have read about that. Thanks though, Lester. You seem to be the only one responding.

I know families (large ones in particular) were split up, where one part went to the bow and the other to the stern. Were they able to meet each other during the day in, say, the room for the mother and children? Or even in the room where the father and older sons resided during the voyage. Correct me if I'm wrong, but from an earlier post with Lester, I have come to believe that they used Scotland Road to go back and forth, from one part of the Third Class areas to another. Any information would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
 
Jul 9, 2000
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>>Were they able to meet each other during the day in, say, the room for the mother and children?<<

They could all meet in the Dining saloon or for that matter, in the general room up on C-deck. Even if the sleeping arrangements were segregated, getting together during the day wasn't a problem.
 
Jul 20, 2000
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Ben,

I should have called the document found on Sage's body an Immigration Card, not a ticket.
Also he was recorded in all WS documentation as an 11 year old child.

You say: "I know families (large ones in particular) were split up, where one part went to the bow and the other to the stern." - How do you know that? - Do you have any specific proof that that actually happened?

Lester
 

Ben Lemmon

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I don't have any specific proof that it actually happened. However, if I haven't heard about it here, then I'm pretty sure that Walter Lord touches on it in The Night Lives On in the chapter What Happened to the Goodwins? as one of the reasons why the family was not able to make it to the boat deck. There are a lot of things that happened that can't be proven. That's what faith is.
 
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Matt Pereira

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I have heard about the whole men and women in different parts of the ship for 3rd class but I dont know if I have heard that familys were split up or not.
 

Ben Lemmon

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I think that the older boys and the father were separated, especially in larger families. These larger families were definitely not able to stay in a four-berth cabin, lest they be laying on top of each other (get your mind out of the gutter). In the case of the voyage of the Titanic, where the Sage and Goodwin families had older boys and younger children, the younger children stayed with the mother, while the "little men" and men stayed together in another cabin, which was usually near the bow of the ship. I believe that Walter Lord talks about this as a possible reason as to why the Goodwins were not able to make it to the deck. It sounds plausible, no? One group did not want to leave without knowing the other party would be safe. By the time they found each other, it was too late!
 

Rachel Carter

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In Lord's "The Night Lives On" it does say that the Goodwins probably booked two four-berth cabins - isn't it possible that the Sages might have done something similar?

Of course, we wouldn't know exactly what the Goodwins booked because none of them survived, but Lord says, and I quote:

"The Goodwins probably occupied two of the four-berth cabins at the very stern of the ship, which White Star reserved for single women and families traveling together."
 

Ben Lemmon

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In Lord's "The Night Lives On" it does say that the Goodwins probably booked two four-berth cabins - isn't it possible that the Sages might have done something similar?
It is quite possible. That's probably what they did actually. However, there is no definitive source on the Sage family, as with the Goodwin family. The only thing we know, and it is from word of mouth (which can be highly unreliable at times), is that Stella Sage might've been saved, had she not given up her seat in a lifeboat. This was because the rest of her family couldn't be saved. Alas, we shall never know the true story of these unfortunate families unless we meet them in the next world. By then, it'll be far too late.
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Rachel Carter

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Well, it won't be too late for us. Just for the rest of the world!

Now, one thing - why couldn't the rest of Mrs. Sage's family join her in a lifeboat? Surely some of the children, especially the girls, could have joined her? (Forgive me if this seems to be obvious to you - as far as in-depth Titanic research goes, I'm an amateur!)
 

Ben Lemmon

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as far as in-depth Titanic research goes, I'm an amateur
As am I. I do not have the resources to do what some of the more avid researchers on this forum have done. I would love to be able to, though.

Some of the girls and younger boys definitely were able to make it on to the lifeboats. However, there some instances where family members were all that these people had. They didn't want to be split. It's kind of the same thing that kept Isador and Ida Strauss together. They didn't want to be parted. In fact, (correct me if I'm wrong) I do believe that the Sages were seen as a group on the boat deck, not long before the Titanic took her final plunge. I would think the same thing happened with the Goodwins, though there are numerous other possible conditions that could have happened, as Walter Lord speculates.
 

Rachel Carter

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Trust me, I'm not the one who could correct you.

Although I was reading my library copy of TNLO this afternoon and it did mention that the Goodwins were possibly part of the huge mob seen by Gracie and (Clinch) Smith as they raced aft after freeing one of the officer's quarters collapsibles. I don't think it specifically mentioned either man seeing a definite Goodwin, but there's probably something somewhere (God only knows where) about a Sage/Goodwin being part of a Boat Deck group.
 

SandyJo

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Dec 13, 2018
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I don't have any specific proof that it actually happened. However, if I haven't heard about it here, then I'm pretty sure that Walter Lord touches on it in The Night Lives On in the chapter What Happened to the Goodwins? as one of the reasons why the family was not able to make it to the boat deck. There are a lot of things that happened that can't be proven. That's what faith is.
Do you by chance know what cabin the Goodwin Family was in?
 
Nov 14, 2005
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Do you by chance know what cabin the Goodwin Family was in?
I don't think that was ever recorded. Cabins could be assigned after they boarded and or changed to accommodate different groups of people in third class. Never seen anywhere where its mentioned other than speculation as to what cabins they might have been in.
 
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