This and That (For those interesting stories that don't fit neatly anywhere else)

Jul 31, 2012
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From ABC Science:
Study sinks 'women and children first' myth
Click on: Study sinks 'women and children first' myth Ӽ News in Science (ABC Science)

Comment: This study shouldn't come as a shock to any of the long time members. Some of us have been saying this same thing for years!
Yes, however I don't know about the "Captain going down with the ship" part. That article seems to infer that most captains survived and thus did not "go down with the ship", what about the Captain of the Republic in 1909? I believe he insisted on staying until it did sink, or Captain Turner on the Lusitania? Both survived, and at least in Turner's case went down with the ship as far as they could go.

"Going down with the ship" doesn't mean they have to perish, nor does it seem to indicate they were the last on the ship either IMO. Just that they rode the ship into the ocean.
 
Jul 31, 2012
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>>what about the Captain of the Republic in 1909?<<

What about him? What the article addresses is the overall trand as far as the larger picture goes, not the notable exceptions.
Just that there are Captains who stay as long as their ship is floating, does someone really have to perish to be in the category?

If it does, then theoretically if the accounts claiming Captain Smith was swimming around in the immediate post sinking were true then did he "go down with the ship"? Like Turner he would have probably followed stayed on the ship until he found himself in the water, thus "going down" with the ship IMO.
 
Dec 2, 2000
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Easley South Carolina
>>Just that there are Captains who stay as long as their ship is floating, does someone really have to perish to be in the category?<<

Since that was not the point of the article at all, I really don't understand what you're driving at.

The point of the article was that the whole women and children first thing is a nice romantic myth. Ships like the Birkenhead, Republic, and Titanic being the notable exceptions to the fact that in the vast majority of maritime disasters, it's women and children last.

"Whatabouts" don't get you past that core fact.
 
Jul 31, 2012
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I know what you're saying, but whether a captain is the last one off (to me) doesn't equate to "going down" with a ship, my only point was that there are several instances of captains who stayed on their ships and appear to have been 'forced' off when the ship sank out from under them. They may not have been the last off (as in Turner's case when he was swept from the bridge) but they did make an effort to stay as long as they could.

As for the women and children part (I agree they are not always first in such an event) however it infers that a surviving captain has not gone down with his ship, and also infers that a surviving captain is not chivalrous. Again, the reason I brought Captain Smith into the discussion was that if we take the reports of his initial survival as fact ( I suspect there is some merit to some) then at some point he was swept off the ship before it sank and was not the last one off (obviously), as certainly he would have been seen by any survivors on the stern had he somehow moved aft. Anyway with circumstances such as the force of water (the "wave" that pushed the collapsible, Lightoller, Gracie, and others) you don't really have much of a say in whether you stay or not. I wouldn't say any of those caught by the wave (and facing an almost certain chance of drowning) were anything but heroic for staying and trying as long as they did. IMO.

All I was wondering, was that if a captain stays until he is forcefully washed off his ship does it really matter when he leaves? Or should they make every attempt to climb back aboard a sinking ship?
 
Dec 2, 2000
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>>All I was wondering, was that if a captain stays until he is forcefully washed off his ship does it really matter when he leaves?<<

Not really, but I have to stress that this is NOT the point the article was trying to make.