Titanic crew on Justicia


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Rolf Vonk

Guest
Hello dear people,

I've found some information about the Statendam II, for none-Dutch people better known as Justicia. Statendam II was built by H&W for the Holland America Line and it was almost the same as Titanic. Just a bit larger, but her size made her the sixth biggest ship in the world at the time of her building. Because of this ship and its similarity with Titanic Jonkheer Reuchlin of the Holland America Line boarded Titanic. He died, but the building of the Statendam II was set forward.

In the early months of 1914 (statendam was still at H&W) the ship was taken by the British government under the threat of total confisqation. Of course the Dutch government couldn't do anything against this.

The Statendam II was handed over to the White Star Line under her new name "Justicia".
Because of their knowledge with Titanic, pretty much old crewmembers of Titanic were placed on Justicia.

My question is if there is someone who could give me information our the names of formal Titanic crewmembers who were placed on Justicia. Are there any accounts about them??

Much greetings Rollie
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Mark Baber

Moderator
Member
Jul 4, 2000
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Hello, Rollie---

Two points:

1. Justicia wasn't larger than Titanic; she was actually quite a bit smaller---a little over 32,000 tons. (Sources: Bonsor's North Atlantic Seaway, showing 32,120; Williams and deKerbrech's Damned by Destiny, 32,235; Haws' Merchant Fleets, 32,234.) But she may have been the FIFTH largest ship of her day, after Vaterland, Imperator, Aquitania and Olympic---or am I missing one somewhere? (Justicia was, by a couple of hundred tons, larger than Mauretania; Bismarck had been launched, but wasn't completed until after the war, so I wouldn't count her.)

2. I don't have any specific information about the identity of Justicia's crew, and there may well have been Titanic survivors among them. But the bulk of her crew were Britannic's, not Titanic's. Britannic, recall, was lost on 21 November 1916, less than five months before Justicia was handed over on 7 April 1917; Titanic's sinking was five years earlier. In fact, most sources state that it was the ready availability of Britannic's crew that led to Justicia's being placed under White Star management; she was initially intended for Cunard, but Cunard couldn't muster the necessary crew. About 600 of Britannic's crew survived, almost exactly the same number as Justicia carried.

(Sources: Haws' Merchant Fleets, Anderson's White Star, de Kerbrech and Williams' Damned by Destiny, Eaton and Haas' Falling Star;Bonsor's North Atlantic Seaway.)

MAB
 
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Rolf Vonk

Guest
Hi MAB,

I'm terribly sorry! What a hughe fault that I typed "larger" instead of "smaller". Yes, I know Statendam II was smaller than Titanic. It had three funnels instead four and her decks went from F and not from G deck (like Titanic) to above. Maybe I wouldn't count Statendam II when you also don't count Bismarck. Statendam was never completed. Also not when she was torpedoed on July 19, 1917 by German U-64 and sunk the next day by U-124.

They elaborate interiors for Statendam II were still at H&W during the time she was a troopship. They were used at Statendam III in 1929. It gave this last ship an atmosphere of long gone elegance and it became very popular by elderly people.

Statendam II could exactly carry 706 crew member WHEN she was in her duty as a passenger liner. I don't know if this number just increase or not when a passenger liner is transformed into a troopship. A very reliable Dutch source says there were pretty much ex-Titanic crewmembers among the crew for Justicia. I don't know how much, but even when these were the missing 106 among the 600 ex-Britannic crewmembers, I would call that pretty much.

Do you have some information about which crewmembers or what kind of crewmembers would have been placed on Justicia?

Much greetings Rollie
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R

Rolf Vonk

Guest
Hi MAB,

I forgot to give the sources. Here they come: the unofficial HAL site, 125 jaar Holland America Line by Mr de Boer and Titanic by Edward P. de Groot.

Greetings Rollie
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