Thanks for a very detailed explanation, instead if we talk about short circuits, could someone die by electrocution? I don't think there were any circuit breakers like now.. Do we know anything about it?
Titanic deaths not caused by hypothermia or drowning
- Thread starter William Oakes
- Start date
Arun Vajpey
Member
Exactly how do you think that could have happened? By fastening the life jacked erroneously or something similar? I read that when Lowe returned with others on Lifeboat #14, William Hoyt was one of those they found; reportedly, he was still buoyed-up by his life jacket but bleeding from his nose and mouth. Lowe did comment that Hoyt was still alive when they found him, hauled him on board the lifeboat with some difficulty as he was a large man and loosened the life-vest to "allow him to breathe more easily".
I wonder if that suggested that Hoyt (or more likely, one of the helping stewards) had tied the life jacked too tightly around his large frame? Did its design make that possibility a risk? Someone like Thomas Krom might know.
Ezekiel
Member
There are various possibilities. He many have fastened the lifejacket erroneously. He may have jumped from an excessive height. Or that kind of lifejacket may just have not been suitable for a very large man. That the lifejacket was the cause is in itself merely a conjecture on my part, due to the kind of injuries he seems to have suffered. Instances of lifejackets causing serious injury or death to those jumping overboard wearing them aren't unheard of, from the Morro Castle to the Conte Rosso.
Arun Vajpey
Member
Oh, I can very well believe that from personal experience. While white-water rafting in the Nantahala River in 2005, I was at one end of a large inflatable raft that held 7 of us. While drifting down a sharp bend, the raft hit a rocky outcrop and capsized; I was trapped underneath while all the rest ended up on top of it. The inflated tube ensured that there was air trapped under the capsized raft but because of the life jacket, I found it impossible to swim under and out. After 2 failed attempts and the raft being dragged by the current, I calmed down and managed to push the tube up to give me enough leverage to swim under and out. But it was scary.
Mike Spooner
Member
Hypothermia when the body is too cold. As the human race we are quite a delicate specimen when it come to a temperature drop.
Normal core body temperature is about 37c if it drops by 10c we are in serious trouble of shutdown within our system. As the water temp was -2c what chance for those who were not properly protected against the cold. A slow death indeed. As for those trapped in the ship and drown, and not to put a too finer point was a quicker death than hypothermia.
Normal core body temperature is about 37c if it drops by 10c we are in serious trouble of shutdown within our system. As the water temp was -2c what chance for those who were not properly protected against the cold. A slow death indeed. As for those trapped in the ship and drown, and not to put a too finer point was a quicker death than hypothermia.
It was actually almost -3 C, which makes it even worse. According to Captain Lord, the water temperature at 10 p.m. was -27 and the air was 30.
Arun Vajpey
Member
At that sort of temperature, hypothermia would have set in fairly quickly and most of those in the water would either have been dead within 30 minutes or in a state of stupor and within minutes from death. Therefore, it throws out of the window all those claims by several male survivors, both passengers and crew, about "swimming for hours" before being picked up; that nonsense was clearly the product of survivor's guilt.
Hypothermia slows down all systems and for a while tries to protect vital organs like heart, brain, kidneys etc. With regard to the brain, that protective effort is largely concentrated with the part of the brain stem that controls vital functions of respiration and circulation and the at the expense of cognitive functions. That would mean that all of the people in the freezing ocean would have quickly become drowsy and slid into stupor even if they were breathing and had their circulation going for a while. So even IF someone like Phillips, presumably a healthy and fit 25 year old man at the time, had made it to the top of Collapsible B (which I personally doubt), the fact that he died soon afterwards suggests that he would have been in a state of severe hypothermia with total confusion and exhaustion. Phillips most certainly would not have been in a condition to tell Lightoller what the Second Officer claimed that he did in the latter's 1935-36 exchange with Harold Bride. By inference therefore, Lightoller was lying outright.
I make a post where I talk about death that didn't happen due to hypothermia and what are you talking about? Hypothermia....... However, hypothermia sets in after 30 minutes.. Most people died within 4 minutes maximum from cold shock, when your body touches water you hyperventilate and cannot not even breathing. I agree that many tales of people surviving hours in the water are unreal. It would have been impossible to resist and not suffer damage such as physical trauma, paralysis, loss of legs or dementia. Probably many men, to be elected as heroes and not as cowards (as happened with Ismay), especially the crew members..
Arun Vajpey
Member
I was merely responding to the excellent point made by one of our Moderators, Jason Tiller, in Post #22 of this thread. Granted, the OP was about Titanic deaths not due to hypothermia or drowning and such possible causes have also been discussed in this thread. But if you noticed, there were likely overlap of causes etc and I was just making a point that most deaths of those left drifting in the icy water were due to hypothermia....but other causes, particularly injuries, could have contributed.
I am a retired doctor and do have experience with effects of exposure to the elements on the human body. So, I do know "what I am talking about".
No need to get your shirt in a knot, Marco. Arun was merely responding to my post.
Hypothermia can set in as little as 5 minutes, if the temperature is -50 F °. For Titanic's victims, hypothermia symptoms were noticeable in 15 minutes with death coming in less than an hour. I've experienced hypothermia and frostbite at the same time; it's no picnic. And when the feeling comes back in your limbs or feet that have suffered frostbite, it returns with unimaginable pain.
Getting back to the OP, many deaths were caused by people jumping from a great height with their lifebelts on and breaking their necks. It had to do with the Fosberry lifebelt and how they were worn. Soon after the disaster, Fosberry changed the design of their lifebelts.
James Murdoch
Member
For what it's worth, I don't think Marco was being deliberately abrupt/rude. Rather it appears his text was lost in translation, so to speak.
Arun Vajpey
Member
I think you could be right. Most European languages do not have the same kind of subtle (and some not-so-subtle) nuances that English does and with verbatim translations it is often easy to misunderstand a simple statement of fact as being rude or sarcastic.
Gentlemen, excuse me, I have no intention of disrespecting anyone. Often, to make it quick, I use google translate and in my language (Italian) what I said is just a remark that I want someone to answer my question (with a touch of sarcasm) .. It's not an insult .. Peace and love to all!
Good to know, Marco. However, I would suggest inserting a smile emoji in future, as comments such as that can be easily misinterpreted.
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