Titanic Dinner Plates

[Steve Santini]

Hi Maureen,
You are most welcome! I am only too glad to help and I am only trying to educate. You should cut up sections of the "Martha Stewart deck chair" and sell them on Ebay. I bet you would clean up!!!
Take care and thanks for the nice words, Steve Santini

 

[Maureen Zottoli]

Glad you have a sense of humor Steve. I am glad you are back on here.

And I like the idea for the deck chair...I'll check with Martha to see if she has a problem with that.

But I guess that the important thing is that there is a remote possibility that the china could have been pieces that were once on Titanic, but the owners must demonstrate some sort of chain of ownership that states that since so many pieces were made for so many ships that it would be difficult to say without question just from looking at these that they are pieces from the Titanic. But a documented chain of ownership would demonstrate on paper the ownership..is that right?

Maureen.

 

[Maureen Zottoli]

Sorry, forgot to ask this. What sort of "paper" or document or whatever is it that would have been drawn up as a transaction that would have officially transferred the china ownership from White Star to the gentleman who removed it?

Were there a set of forms or was it simply a written note or a transaction payment received type of thing?

I guess I am asking, what is it that you need as demonstration of this?

They said something about a White Star document, what is that and what does it record?

Again, I know nothing about this stuff.

Maureen.

 

[Steve Santini]

Maureen,
Please read my previous posts. You will find one where I mention the "provenance" document and the problems and conflicts it contains. Read the posts and I will also e mail you this document so you can see for yourself. I am not meaning to be rude by not answering your questions, but I have been over and over this thing in incredible detail on this thread and I am somewhat reluctant to revisit the numerous problems and conflicts concerning the alleged authenticity of these plates. Be sure to read the document I send you VERY CAREFULLY and look for conflicts. Regards, Steve Santini.

 

[Maureen Zottoli]

Okay.

I guess what I was asking was what is meant by "provenance" document. But I will read the document you send to me and get back with you later.

Thanks.
Maureen.

 

[Maureen Zottoli]

Okay, I have read what you have sent to me.

I have some questions.

Taking away the Thomas Andrews questions, I know that when growing up I saw some of my parents relatives pass on and their clothing was passed down to a relative or given away to charity or placed in a box and stored. I noted that many people did not want to use or know that this was used by a person who died. Were there possibly some sort of "omens" or superstitions about using the Titanic china? Would there be anyway to document that? People in the 1930's did not have any value applied to old Titanic things and in 1912, it would not be great to know that one was eating off of old Titanic dishes while sailing. And as in anything, word does get out. The barrel would have just sat there no one daring to use the pieces.

Also, Morgan was to be on Titanic, could it be that Titanic was being outfitted with all new things to impress the American investor?

As for the Thomas Andrews thingy, I do not have any thought as to why a thing would happen that way.

And so that Mr Cross is clear, it seems that the thread was started by an innocent bystander here who asked if what he saw at an exhibit was really true. Those sorts of questions happen all the time here. Just a harmless question. The fact is that "sean" addressed the answer by bringing up the fact that their authenticity was being questioned and that she sort of questioned people who would do that.

I do not think that Steve has shown anything but respect for the proof of ownership chain of events process here.

Just as in evidence there is a chain of evidence, in ownership there is a chain of ownership. If I were to purchase a home with a title search that I felt the ownership transfer was not thoroughly documented in an earlier point, I would ask for further documentation. In real estate word of mouth simply does not cut it any more, one must have paperwork to prove ownership.

Steve, I believe, is honestly trying to help.

I think that he is saying, okay you say this happened, now show me that it did through a paper trail. That is not the same thing as questioning integrity.

Maureen.

 

[Steve Santini]

Dear Maureen,
I was not really, as you put it, just "trying to help". In fact, I was, and have been, investigating and questioning the claims surrounding these items which are alleged to have been on, and taken off, the Titanic. To proceed to lay out theories as you have done detailing possiblities why these china pieces were not put into circulation after they were taken off the ship is assuming that they were on the ship in the first place which, evidence shows, they were not. Eeven if one were to make a leap of faith and asuume these plates were on Titanic, the question here is not the chain of ownership but in fact the chain of custody (i.e. every set of hands these pieces have ever passed through.)Regards, Steve Santini

 

[Kris Muhvic]

Hello-
A little question here- is there, somewhere, a, well, "roster" or catalogue type thing that lists the styles, patterns, etc. of china used on Titanic (or WSL ships of the 1912 era)? In my book collection I see many: 1st class saloon, A la Carte, 2nd and 3rd class- yet there seems to be differences within these catagories. Or maybe just misinformations- I don't know.
I am no Titanic artifact collector, because A., I could not afford a butter pat, and B., if I could...it would be fake! I do collect the old Adams, Meakin etc. vartiety ironstone, but that has nothing to do with Titanic; I just like the simple, pure shapes. My interest here is obviously quite peripheral.

Take care-
Kris

 

[Mike Orton]

"White Star" Fiddle pattern Nickel "Silver" fork.
Pseudo hall mark Crown, Gate D & A
(Daniel and Artur Birmingham)
"Navada Silver D & A " on shaft.
Stamp White Star above pseudo hall mark.
Got for 20p in Harlech Charity Shop.
Obviously from 3rd class on WSL ship, but which one? any ideas? Worth how much?

 

[Ernie Luck]

A friend who lives up North and who is aware of my interest in Titanic, mentioned that an Antique Centre in Bakewell, Derbyshire is offering plates for sale from the 'Bull' collection. The price is £1200 which I understand is negotiable. Given the doubts expressed by Steve Santini and the asking price, I have no personal interest.

There is apparently also an early water-colour painting of the Olympic which presumably came from the same source.

If anyone is interested, I will post the address and telephone number here.

 

[Ray Perks]

Hi Ernie,
I don't think I'd be interested either!
Having said that, and knowing the saga behind these said plates, if you can let me have details of where they are I may be able to shed some more light on the issue. I live about 1 1/2 hours from Bakewell and would probably call them with a view to making a visit to see for myself.

Cheers

 

[Ernie Luck]

Hi Ray

It's the Rutland Arms Antique Centre in Bakewell. Telephone Number 01629 810468. They have side plates and soup plates. Could be the painting is of more interest.

Regards Ernie

 

[Ray Perks]

Hi again Ernie,
thanks for that.
I'll give them a call over the weekend but more likely on Monday with a view to get up to see these items.
Thanks so much for the information. I'll keep you informed.
Cheers

 

[Jason Schleisman]

Soup plates, eh? Hey Ray, as you already know, I would be VERY interested in hearing/seeing what you discover about these.

 

[Ray Perks]

Hi Jason,

Naturally I will tell what I find out. I had dealings with a participant of this saga a few years ago and it would be good to find out the truth. I shall phone the place on Monday and have set aside Tuesday to go and see.

Cheers