Titanic discovered before 1985


Dec 24, 1997
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> [LOVE you too!!!! Going to start again can't take it eh????Dare you to > send me a copy of this SUPPOSED Quote !!!!!!]
 
Jun 10, 1999
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Jon:

Telling from your e-mails, I take it that you would like me to send you a copy (actually I have two mentioning your name) of the article? I would be happy too. I have a very documented newspaper/article collection safely tucked away in mylar protection (dating back to '81 and culminating with Haisman passing).

One problem, I live in the dinosaur ages, actually I am without computer/scanner (I use the State Libray services). If you like you can call my place of work (775-884-9003) and leave your physical address, I would like to send you some copies of various items, and perhaps in turn you could share them with the list. I hear your scanning skills are improving.

I don't even own a DVD player if you can believe that...don't care much for clocks or telephones either. The world is far too automated for me.

Michael Cundiff
USA
 
Dec 24, 1997
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First of all the word BELOVED was that a zinger??Re spokesman lets clear the air once and for all. As far as TEA now THS goes I was only a spokesman for them once and that was only for the Congressional Hearings. Any other articles that mentioned my name as spokesman were taken out of context as I always said I was only a MEMBER. The press likes to embellish so they would change that getting many of us upset. Similar to 1912 when the phrase "Virtuallu Unsinkable" becam "Unsinkable". So again as far as I know there is no official spokeman for THS other than its founder Ed and Karen and its officers Thats the bottom line Dearly Beloved.>
 

Paul Lee

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Aug 11, 2003
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Has there been some big news event regarding the Titanic today? The web stats on my titanicfound.htm page are sky rocketting due to people looking for "Who found the Titanic" on the internet. Has something happened?
 

Cam Houseman

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Jul 14, 2020
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Hi I sent an E-mail to Mike about this and didn't save it so I could copy it to here so will start over. Re DISCOVERED BEFORE 1985. Yes Ann Tantum told me more than once that somewhere in her husbands files was a fuzzy picture of the "Bow" of the Titanic taken back in the 70's but she could never locate it. I had heard that Ballard when he was out there in the 70's was testing a new RCA Camera and that they got one picture before the camera froze up. The camera was sent back for a re build and then went to the Galapagos for more testing. Guess who was in charge of that expedition. Seems they lost some equipment like a bargeload including so it is said the camera in question. Now you man know that I worked closely with Congressman Jones on The Titanic Memorial Act and testified with Ballard and Grimm along with NOAA and the State Department at the hearings. It is interesting to read the transcript of Ballards report about recovery. Not too long after that I had the Consul General of Canada at my place and we arranged for lunch with Ballard at Woods Hole. I told the Consul about the possible 1970's find and told him I would try to get more information. So, at lunch when Ballard was nibbling away I decided to hit him right between the eyes. I Said, "Bob A direct question for you. Was September 1985 the very first time you photographed the Titanic or was it not?" Silence and looks could kill. We finished lunch in a reserved state and when the Consul and I were driving home he said" Well you got him!" Now when I was working on the QE2 and doing presentations as well one voyage I had at my table a Royal Navy Officer and his wife. The officer was now stationed on QE2 in the medical department. One night at dinner we started discussing shipwreck and TItanic and about Ballard maybe seeing it before 1985. The officer leaned over to his wife and whispered and she nodded yes. This is what he told me. Seem back in the 70;s he was on the H.M.S. Hecate and they were testing very sophisticated submarine detection equipment of the Grand Banks. At about 50' X 41' the got an image of a large shipwreck at about 12,300 feet broken in 2 parts separated by a little over a third of a mile or just under a quarter mile.Of course the mission and testing was all very hush hush so it never went public. He did tell me he would try through his contacts to purloin a copy of the image for me but alas was not able to do so. So,,did perhaps Ballard as a Navy man get wind of this and have the position back in the 70's after all and know where the Titanic was all the time and just used the French to waste time and use up all the allocated time and funds that the Government allowed him. According to Jean-Lui Michael of Ifremer it was Ballard that told them in which direction to do their scanning. Had they the French gone in the opposite direction they would have found Titanic on perhaps the first or second pass. Of course evidently to make it look good and keep up the suspense perhaps when Ballard arrived with the Knorr and took over he started at the bottom and worked his way up claiming it was luck that they found it just as time and money was running out. Now one more thing all the recovery perhaps could have been stopped by Ballard then and there if he really wanted to protect the wreck. When he arrived back in port all he had to do was make a statement when asked if he found any remains, he could have said perhaps, We saw some suspicious objects that they chose not to photograph or divulge the images out of respect. That would have clinched it as far as being a grave site and it would have been protected perhaps as are Naval Vessels It wa an R.M.S.ship carrying the Royal Mail. PERHAPS) Cheers Jon View attachment 26976
sorry, but you explain the picture please?
 

Cam Houseman

Member
Jul 14, 2020
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Hi I sent an E-mail to Mike about this and didn't save it so I could copy it to here so will start over. Re DISCOVERED BEFORE 1985. Yes Ann Tantum told me more than once that somewhere in her husbands files was a fuzzy picture of the "Bow" of the Titanic taken back in the 70's but she could never locate it. I had heard that Ballard when he was out there in the 70's was testing a new RCA Camera and that they got one picture before the camera froze up. The camera was sent back for a re build and then went to the Galapagos for more testing. Guess who was in charge of that expedition. Seems they lost some equipment like a bargeload including so it is said the camera in question. Now you man know that I worked closely with Congressman Jones on The Titanic Memorial Act and testified with Ballard and Grimm along with NOAA and the State Department at the hearings. It is interesting to read the transcript of Ballards report about recovery. Not too long after that I had the Consul General of Canada at my place and we arranged for lunch with Ballard at Woods Hole. I told the Consul about the possible 1970's find and told him I would try to get more information. So, at lunch when Ballard was nibbling away I decided to hit him right between the eyes. I Said, "Bob A direct question for you. Was September 1985 the very first time you photographed the Titanic or was it not?" Silence and looks could kill. We finished lunch in a reserved state and when the Consul and I were driving home he said" Well you got him!" Now when I was working on the QE2 and doing presentations as well one voyage I had at my table a Royal Navy Officer and his wife. The officer was now stationed on QE2 in the medical department. One night at dinner we started discussing shipwreck and TItanic and about Ballard maybe seeing it before 1985. The officer leaned over to his wife and whispered and she nodded yes. This is what he told me. Seem back in the 70;s he was on the H.M.S. Hecate and they were testing very sophisticated submarine detection equipment of the Grand Banks. At about 50' X 41' the got an image of a large shipwreck at about 12,300 feet broken in 2 parts separated by a little over a third of a mile or just under a quarter mile.Of course the mission and testing was all very hush hush so it never went public. He did tell me he would try through his contacts to purloin a copy of the image for me but alas was not able to do so. So,,did perhaps Ballard as a Navy man get wind of this and have the position back in the 70's after all and know where the Titanic was all the time and just used the French to waste time and use up all the allocated time and funds that the Government allowed him. According to Jean-Lui Michael of Ifremer it was Ballard that told them in which direction to do their scanning. Had they the French gone in the opposite direction they would have found Titanic on perhaps the first or second pass. Of course evidently to make it look good and keep up the suspense perhaps when Ballard arrived with the Knorr and took over he started at the bottom and worked his way up claiming it was luck that they found it just as time and money was running out. Now one more thing all the recovery perhaps could have been stopped by Ballard then and there if he really wanted to protect the wreck. When he arrived back in port all he had to do was make a statement when asked if he found any remains, he could have said perhaps, We saw some suspicious objects that they chose not to photograph or divulge the images out of respect. That would have clinched it as far as being a grave site and it would have been protected perhaps as are Naval Vessels It wa an R.M.S.ship carrying the Royal Mail. PERHAPS) Cheers Jon View attachment 26976
what is the thing that looks like a triangle without its bottom?
 
May 3, 2005
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I've heard some variations of this and I wouldn't say "Impossible." The variation I heard involved deep ocean surveys which identifed the metallic mass of the ship. Whether any of this is actually true, I have no idea. If some part of it is and it involved the military, the information is probably buried in one of those secret files marked SUICIDE BEFOR READING or something equally blunt. View attachment 26969

Unfortunately, "I Heard" is not exactly renowned as a source that can be trusted. View attachment 26970
One of the reasons I try to stay out of these discussions (although I do falter at times) is because most of my sources belong in the "I Heard" classification.
 
Nov 14, 2005
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One of the reasons I try to stay out of these discussions (although I do falter at times) is because most of my sources belong in the "I Heard" classification.
A brief article on the british navy finding it before 1985. I have read other articles on this also. But this one is brief and provides a link to Paul Lee's article on the subject (which I'll post too) which covers it much more in depth and is quite interesting.
 
Sep 3, 2021
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The wreck of the Titanic discovered . . . in 1912?

This maybe a tall-tale, but I came across a letter written in the 1970s which related a story told in 1923 by a boatswain on a cable-ship off West Africa. The boatswain claimed that ten years earlier he had been aboard a cable-ship sent out to recover bodies from the Titanic (so it must have been either the Mackay-Bennett or the Minia). He said after the recovery, the cable-ship had gone out again to find the wreck using its grapnel. And it did.

Probably a tall-tale, but if any ship could have done this, then it would be a cable-ship. I wrote an article on the Mackay-Bennett and this letter on the PK Porthcurno website. If you search 'PK stories, Recovering Titanic's Dead, Mackay-Bennett' you'll probably find it, or follow the link: Recovering the Titanic’s Dead: the Mackay-Bennett | PK Porthcurno.

(Yes, I know I'm blowing my own trumpet, but I thought the letter worth mentioning.)
 
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Sep 3, 2021
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Incidentally, I think I found the name of the boatswain, a Mr J. W. James who then transferred to the Lady Denison-Pender in c.1923.
The wreck of the Titanic discovered . . . in 1912?

This maybe a tall-tale, but I came across a letter written in the 1970s which related a story told in 1923 by a boatswain on a cable-ship off West Africa. The boatswain claimed that ten years earlier he had been aboard a cable-ship sent out to recover bodies from the Titanic (so it must have been either the Mackay-Bennett or the Minia). He said after the recovery, the cable-ship had gone out again to find the wreck using its grapnel. And it did.

Probably a tall-tale, but if any ship could have done this, then it would be a cable-ship. I wrote an article on the Mackay-Bennett and this letter on the PK Porthcurno website. If you search 'PK stories, Recovering Titanic's Dead, Mackay-Bennett' you'll probably find it, or follow the link: Recovering the Titanic’s Dead: the Mackay-Bennett | PK Porthcurno.

(Yes, I know I'm blowing my own trumpet, but I thought the letter worth mentioning.)
 

Jim Currie

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Apr 16, 2008
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NewtonMearns, Glasgow, Scotland.
Incidentally, I think I found the name of the boatswain, a Mr J. W. James who then transferred to the Lady Denison-Pender in c.1923.
A trumpet properly sounded, Duncan. I enjoyed that effort of yours.

That is a tall tale worthy of a swinging forecastle messroom lamp.
For a grapnel to have been deployed, an approximate starting-point location had to be known. Back in 1912 and for long after that, everyone thought Titanic had sunk 12+ miles farther west than she actually did. That being so, then such a grapnel would have been deployed a couple of miles up-current from the wrong position. Even if a grapple had been deployed, there was no way of knowing what it hooked onto. However, it certainly wasn't the Titanic.

As a matter of interest, my Great-grandfather, Archibald (Baldy) Buchanan, was a founder-member of the John Elder (son of William) workforce (all four of them), and help build the McKay Bennet.
 
Sep 3, 2021
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Those was my thoughts as well, as I wrote in my little article. If (and it is a big 'if') the boatswain's story was true, then they probably hooked a rock, or even (and I like this idea) Grimm's propeller.

But I think it was a tall tale - fun but fiction. But I thought I would share it. At the very least, it demonstrates the Titanic legend even in the 1920s.
 
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Cam Houseman

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Jul 14, 2020
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The wreck of the Titanic discovered . . . in 1912?

This maybe a tall-tale, but I came across a letter written in the 1970s which related a story told in 1923 by a boatswain on a cable-ship off West Africa. The boatswain claimed that ten years earlier he had been aboard a cable-ship sent out to recover bodies from the Titanic (so it must have been either the Mackay-Bennett or the Minia). He said after the recovery, the cable-ship had gone out again to find the wreck using its grapnel. And it did.

Probably a tall-tale, but if any ship could have done this, then it would be a cable-ship. I wrote an article on the Mackay-Bennett and this letter on the PK Porthcurno website. If you search 'PK stories, Recovering Titanic's Dead, Mackay-Bennett' you'll probably find it, or follow the link: Recovering the Titanic’s Dead: the Mackay-Bennett | PK Porthcurno.

(Yes, I know I'm blowing my own trumpet, but I thought the letter worth mentioning.)
Fascinating find Duncan!

I'll certainly be reading the article to find out more.
 

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