Titanic Document Genuine or not?


scientist

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Dec 5, 2012
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I found a document in a copy of Beesley's book on Titanic survivors stories. I appears to be a crew list for the April 10th sailing on a White Star line paper. Initially I thought it was a facsimile but on inspection under magnification I could see that the ink looked to be genuine and had run in the paper. Then I discovered that the signature at the bottom of the form was the captains ( apparently). Does anyone know anything about such a document. Perhaps there are copies facsimiles or fakes out there that someone has seen? If not, how do I tell if the document is genuine?
 

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Mar 18, 2008
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Possibly a copy or a good fake??? Can't say, sorry. I only know that the originial is/must be still at the Public Record Office. (The document is undamaged.)
This list was made after the muster by the Captain for the Board of Trade.
 

Doug Criner

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Dec 2, 2009
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It looks like the document may have been made to look very old and worn - sort of like a fake treasure map that I conjured up as a youth. (My technique was to repeatedly fold and unfold the paper, and booger up the edges, taking care to preserve the document's central information.) If it were authentic or even an "authentic" copy, why would it have been allowed to suffer such wear?

That, plus the place where it was found, seems to suggest that perhaps it was a complimentary favor given out to friends, union members, or attendees of a meeting or party. Experts could surely verify if the document, paper, and ink is 100 years old. The ink seems to be blue? Not sure if that was popular in 1912?
 

Dave Gittins

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Apr 11, 2001
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I suspect a fake. The original in the National Archive is somewhat damaged, mostly along the righthand edge, but nowhere near as much as the new version. I think it might be one from one of the collections of fake documents issued from time to time.

I wonder if it was written in indelible pencil, once a popular medium. It doesn't show the variation in the line width that you get with a steel nib.
 

scientist

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Dec 5, 2012
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Many thanks for all your comments. I agree with all indications that it might be a reproduction. It would be great to see the original and compare the two. Dave Gittins mentions the National Archive; I guess that would be the one at Kew in London or.....?

My deciphering of the other text indicates that the hand written bit is 'window cleaner' 'mess room stewards' and 'master at arms'. All the numbers seem to tally with records on wikipedia.

I wonder who would go to such effort to make the document and then put it in a book which ended up in a second hand book shop or charity shop (I cannot remember where I purchased it)?

Finally, anyone feel it has any value, either commercial or to some exhibition or another?
 
Nov 1, 2018
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Many thanks for all your comments. I agree with all indications that it might be a reproduction. It would be great to see the original and compare the two. Dave Gittins mentions the National Archive; I guess that would be the one at Kew in London or.....?

My deciphering of the other text indicates that the hand written bit is 'window cleaner' 'mess room stewards' and 'master at arms'. All the numbers seem to tally with records on wikipedia.

I wonder who would go to such effort to make the document and then put it in a book which ended up in a second hand book shop or charity shop (I cannot remember where I purchased it)?

Finally, anyone feel it has any value, either commercial or to some exhibition or another?
Hi, did you ever find out where a good home was for your document?
 

Mark Baber

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Dec 29, 2000
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Hello, Lindyloo---

Please note that his/her two messages in this thread are the only ones scientist ever posted on this message board, and are almost six years old. You may well not get an answer to your question.