Titanic Honor and Glory


Harland Duzen

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While I would say (at least for us here) we' more hyped to walk the ship's decks and interiors in the Unreal Engine, it currently does looks a bit dodgy we' having to take their word for it until the game and it's research is publicly released.

Also while patches or updates are certainly something the team can do, having to adjust animations or assets for over a thousand objects and people around the ship would be nearly computer-crashing so it's vital they finalise it now before they start really making the game's story levels and sinking free-roam.
 

A. Gabriel

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The use of the word 'pontificating' has given me a bit of a harsh mental image, a small way for me to cope with the persistent disagreements that seem to crop up around THG because of the dev team's incessant reluctance towards being transparent. (Confiteor, I love the work they're doing and their borderline obsessive-compulsive attention to modeling detail but confound it all a little more open-source-ness wouldn't hurt!)

(Here begins a 'blowoff' of verbal steam)

The rules of the papal conclave were originally inspired by a deadlocked papal election in 1270, where it took being locked in and having the roof removed to get the cardinals to finally pick someone. Perhaps if we put together a broad array of experts as consultants from all corners of ET, and congregated them all in one building, refusing to release them until consensus had been reached, then perhaps finally we would have a sinking scenario that was amenable to any objection thrown at it. I admit, I've only been here a short while and certainly am not qualified to weigh in on any controversies, but confound it all to heck it does get tiring seeing so many verbal shots fired back and forth over timing and circumstance and who saw what and how things fell apart!

(Here ends the 'blowoff')

On related note, should THG come out with a flawed sinking, ought we to hope that it can be 'modded' to reflect a more accurate scenario?
 
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Kyle Naber

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I think a lot of it is just to decrease the competition for quality in other Titanic games that are coming out. They don’t want to hand other companies research that they conducted for free, especially to potential competitors. Just a reminder, this isn’t a history project alone: people’s careers are invested into this.
 
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Harland Duzen

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Indeed and a-lot of the promise of this game is to see things not seen or experienced before in other games so it makes sense to withhold it for maximum impact and profit (much to our current displeasure). The same applies to upcoming albums and books.
 
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Rusty_S

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This is why I was cautioning you (and others in general) not to put THG on such a pedestal. I'm getting increasingly uncomfortable with the claims coming out of the project (the lights stayed on, Loraine Allison made it to A but was washed off, people were dismembered by the funnel stays to name but three) and then either ignoring or replying "we can't say" when asked for evidence.

My official training was in history, a BA and MA. Historians shouldn't be afraid of being corrected or reviewed as the entire field is revisionist. If you want to make a claim, please, let us hear it and examine your evidence for ourselves. But don't keep boasting about discoveries and refuse to share unless your project is done.
I agree. It is the scientific process in a nut shell. Let us see your process and we will go through the motions ourselves and see if we come up with the same results verifying your process.

In this case lots of what historians have claimed I don't agree with because you have eye witness testimony contradicting the claims. Well show me where you come up with this belief. They cant do it and just want to pull the card "we have access to information you don't have access to" Great, release the information and stop hoarding it like some wanna be brotherhood of steel organization.
 

Rusty_S

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I think a lot of it is just to decrease the competition for quality in other Titanic games that are coming out. They don’t want to hand other companies research that they conducted for free, especially to potential competitors. Just a reminder, this isn’t a history project alone: people’s careers are invested into this.
Of course but what happens after the game is released people can still copy their work and make their own games. You would never prevent that from happening.
 

Rusty_S

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Indeed and a-lot of the promise of this game is to see things not seen or experienced before in other games so it makes sense to withhold it for maximum impact and profit (much to our current displeasure). The same applies to upcoming albums and books.
But being too secretive can harm the game as well as people will be wary of it. Look at Fallout 76, it was hyped to the moon then when it came out simply it will be online only multiplayer that's when the black out went in place and not much more was said and people started distancing themselves from the game as it didn't seem to be what the game should be.

Same with this game, if they don't show us the reason for creating the Titanic the way they did then will they correct errors in the game and patch it if we review the data at a later date and prove them wrong?
 

Harland Duzen

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Secretly can harm publicity of a product. the film Blade Runner 2049* to prevent spoilers gave none of the plot or premises away and the Public had nothing to get excited for or prevent them from thinking it was just a reboot or repeat of the original film which partly led to it's low box office return and failure.

Of course but what happens after the game is released people can still copy their work and make their own games. You would never prevent that from happening.
While it is definite the moment it's released, there will be countless repeats and other video games that will copy or use their research for their own games, T:H&G will be brought by the public first thereby promising they get their money and be the game to set the bar for subsequent ones.

A VERY important thing to consider is that the game is not yet ready to actually begin programming or creating levels. So far T:H&G have stated in their recent weekly videos that they are waiting to get an investor and / or finish the ship itself before they start.

I mean that for the past few years as far as we know, they have simply been creating assets and scenery (eg. the ship, it's furniture and people models) and they only very recently have begun to make an actual demo for investors that will contain working NPC's and quests. Keep that in mind^.

Back to topic!

*Blade Runner 2049 is brilliant, 10/10 from me go watch it if you over 18.

^NOTE: I am not a Video Game Expert or designer, my knowledge comes from watching Video Game design videos on Youtube. I could be wrong.
 

Brad Rousse

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Secretly can harm publicity of a product. the film Blade Runner 2049* to prevent spoilers gave none of the plot or premises away and the Public had nothing to get excited for or prevent them from thinking it was just a reboot or repeat of the original film which partly led to it's low box office return and failure.
JJ Abrams' obsession with "secrecy" and "mystery" is also pretty irritating.

If your ad campaign is dancing around me singsonging "I'm not telling you!" I'm not watching (and am probably punching you as I leave).
 
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(Confiteor, I love the work they're doing and their borderline obsessive-compulsive attention to modeling detail but confound it all a little more open-source-ness wouldn't hurt!)
Don't be so sure about that. The work the THG people are doing is absolutely cutting edge and therein lies the rub: When you're on the cutting edge, or if you even LOOK like you are, people like to steal your work and take credit for it. Copyright infringement is as much a problem with games and simulations as is with books, position papers, articles and the like.

It is NOT at all unreasonable for them to hold some stuff close. I sure as hell would and that's why!
 
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Harland Duzen

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JJ Abrams' obsession with "secrecy" and "mystery" is also pretty irritating.

If your ad campaign is dancing around me singsonging "I'm not telling you!" I'm not watching (and am probably punching you as I leave).
To be fair, it's a fine line and needs to be done with care and attention to inform and intrigue your audience and not give too little or too much away (as many trailers sadly do) As to what part of that line T:H&G stands on, we all have our opinions on it.

Don't be so sure about that. The work the THG people are doing is absolutely cutting edge and therein lies the rub: When you're on the cutting edge, or if you even LOOK like you are, people like to steal your work and take credit for it. Copyright infringement is as much a problem with games and simulations as is with books, position papers, articles and the like.

It is NOT at all unreasonable for them to hold some stuff close. I sure as hell would and that's why!
Agreed, take Star Wars. Prior to the release of
A New Hope in 1977, most films were Westerns, then after it made $700+ Million, everyone began making Sc- Fi films to cash in on the popularity. And that doesn't mention the cheap / terrible ripoffs made illegally or stealing the footage (like Dünyayı Kurtaran Adam, which is quite something). ;)


Back to Topic and while we may dislike it, it is something we got to deal it. It is a passion project but they have spent so much time and research, it's understandable they want to make a return on it.

Likely every historian on this website would hope to be credited or deserve recognition for the time they spent looking in newspaper archives, finding accounts, photos, new info etc.
 
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Aaron_2016

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My understanding was that H&G would simply be a well-made simulator, or a VR interactive simulator at best. I can't imagine that they would spend so much time on detail and accuracy and then spoil it all by turning it into a shoot-em up video game. I recall there is a zombie style Titanic game in the works. So I'm hoping the H&G interactive simulator will be something far more intellectual. I would be happy if they re-made Titanic: Adventure out of time using the H&G software. One of my favourite pastime games was 'The Last Express' set in 1914 aboard a luxury train. The game was in 'real time' and players could sit back and just watch daily life go by as the passengers enjoyed breakfast, lunch, dinner while the player sneaked into their rooms for clues and created friendships and loyalties to solve various murders and mysteries aboard. I think the H&G game would be rather enjoyable if the player was a detective during the voyage and sinking.

I believe the developers are being very protective. I remember the news reports when the popular game Half Life 2 was stolen before its release which jeopardised the whole project. The team must be paying a pretty penny for copyright protection.


.
 
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Kyle Naber

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You actually are a sort of detective on this game! You’re trying to prove that you’re innocent after being accused of robbing a jewelry store by chasing after the real criminals on board. The goal is to escape alive with your evidence.
 

Rusty_S

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Secretly can harm publicity of a product. the film Blade Runner 2049* to prevent spoilers gave none of the plot or premises away and the Public had nothing to get excited for or prevent them from thinking it was just a reboot or repeat of the original film which partly led to it's low box office return and failure.



While it is definite the moment it's released, there will be countless repeats and other video games that will copy or use their research for their own games, T:H&G will be brought by the public first thereby promising they get their money and be the game to set the bar for subsequent ones.

A VERY important thing to consider is that the game is not yet ready to actually begin programming or creating levels. So far T:H&G have stated in their recent weekly videos that they are waiting to get an investor and / or finish the ship itself before they start.

I mean that for the past few years as far as we know, they have simply been creating assets and scenery (eg. the ship, it's furniture and people models) and they only very recently have begun to make an actual demo for investors that will contain working NPC's and quests. Keep that in mind^.

Back to topic!

*Blade Runner 2049 is brilliant, 10/10 from me go watch it if you over 18.

^NOTE: I am not a Video Game Expert or designer, my knowledge comes from watching Video Game design videos on Youtube. I could be wrong.
Of course the game isn't ready. There is still majority of the engineering sections of the ship that hasn't even been started on modeling wise indicated by the grey on their progress maps. Lots of the ship is already in progress or finished but not in the game engine yet. But still its a long way away. Take a look at Black Mesa Source, it was hyped up through the roof but they kept missing promised release dates. Then they went total dark on the final chapters and the final chapters been in progress for the last 5 years now. Interest has been waning for that mod because lets face it, it got its start in 2005 and here it is 2018 and its still not finished and all they are doing is creating new models and maps based off a game that was already made and created.

That is akin to these devs remaking Adventure Out of Time with modern graphics and taking over 10 years to do it and all they had to do was just create the models as the script was there, the story was there, and the cut scenes were there.

In the end I understand that they are trying hard to get investors and they have a goal of 2 years to finish the game with an investor. Problem is why haven't they picked up an investor yet? I mean they are getting hit up for use of their CGI videos all the time for documentaries. Youd think someone would be like yea Id like to cash in on this with all the hype around it.
 

Rusty_S

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Not to mention where still three years at least from this game ever being made
They say 2 but I think 4 years is what it would take. 2 years to create the game then 2 years to polish it and resolve performance issues because lets face it they should at least I hope realize that to sell the game should be able to run some what on your average PC. They shouldn't do like Titanic VR and make it so ungodly horrible in performance that the audio is out of sync with whats going on. If you can play GTA5 you should be able to play this with no problems in my book.
 

Rusty_S

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You actually are a sort of detective on this game! You’re trying to prove that you’re innocent after being accused of robbing a jewelry store by chasing after the real criminals on board. The goal is to escape alive with your evidence.
I always wondered how they plan to pull that. Means not just you but the criminals you are chasing are not real people either. Unless they pull a twist and make some real life passenger a criminal which would go against their telling the story aspect.
 

Rancor

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To add my 2 cents to the discussion I think H&G are actually a lot more open with the development than other mods, with their devblogs and monthly Q&As. I followed Black Mesa Source during it's development and while they got a really good result in the end there were some frustrating moments during development when updates would go quiet for long periods of time or the only progress would be a screenshot blurred to the point of being just a mess of colours.

That said I think it's important to remember that it was a community project being worked on across the globe and there were several people who were actively attempting to sabotage the project. I think the did really well in the end, and I hope the H&G team will have similar success. They certainly seem a pretty professional outfit with clear plans and goals.

Unfortunately I think it's just the nature of these type of smaller teams that progress takes a long time. If they do manage to secure an investor we could expect things to speed up.
 
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