Titanic Honor and Glory

Rancor

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Jun 23, 2017
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If you'll excuse the double post I do take issue with their latest breakup animation. I know we've been over this before but if the break happened as they show I fail to understand how the emergency lights managed to stay on. The emergency generators were not diesels as per modern ships and still required steam to run that would have been in short supply with all the boilers being in the bow section. I guess momentum may have kept the dynamos spinning for a short period of time (10 or 20 seconds maybe..?) But not for the amount of time shown in the latest animation.

I'm open to having my mind changed on this, but have yet to read compelling evidence to the contrary.
 
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Kyle Naber

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Oct 5, 2016
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I think if I had to pick something, the most unconvincing part is when we see the main lights snap on for a second near the break area when the third and fourth funnels fall down together.
 

A. Gabriel

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Jun 13, 2018
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Are we sure it was the emergency dynamos? I’m not aware of any accounts that state that the emergency dynamos were started up. It could easily have been the main dynamos winding down that kept the lights on — but fading fast, with no steam to run on and momentum the only thing keeping them spinning.

Physics problem: how long does it take for four dynamos spinning at 235 rpm to slow to a stop?
 

Rancor

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Jun 23, 2017
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I will find the reference later as I'm a bit short on time at the moment but I understand it was standard practice to start the emergency dynamos after sunset incase of a failure of the main generating plant. There is also survivor testimony that they were running.

Good question on the run down speed, I'm not sure on that one. All my generating experience has been with diesel gensets around 150KVA rating. With these you get a wind-down of maybe 5 seconds or so, but of course there is the compression stroke that would be absent with a steam prime-mover so possibly a steam engine would take longer to coast down. The load on the dynamo itself would also be an important factor I would guess.
 

A. Gabriel

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Jun 13, 2018
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The 'Cold Starting the Titanic' article may have particulars on the starting and running of the emergency dynamos I think, I remember seeing mention of their use there.

Minor correction regarding my 235rpm value, it's actually too low. According to the Shipbuilder article, the four main dynamos (total output = 16000A at 100V = 1600kW, so 400kW each?) ran at a heinously fast 325rpm on 185psi gauge, while the two emergency dynamos (rated 30kW each) ran at an even more blisteringly fast 380rpm.
 

Brad Rousse

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Nov 27, 2002
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If you'll excuse the double post I do take issue with their latest breakup animation. I know we've been over this before but if the break happened as they show I fail to understand how the emergency lights managed to stay on. The emergency generators were not diesels as per modern ships and still required steam to run that would have been in short supply with all the boilers being in the bow section. I guess momentum may have kept the dynamos spinning for a short period of time (10 or 20 seconds maybe..?) But not for the amount of time shown in the latest animation.

I'm open to having my mind changed on this, but have yet to read compelling evidence to the contrary.
Me too. I'm having a real problem with that and the reaction to asking for evidence.
 
Mar 9, 2018
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Overall, I'd say its a worth it investment. $12 isn't that bad. Sure I would like to have a larger size available but I get whats available and why they can't afford to make huge prints. A 41" x 27" frame of a few of their prints would make me so happy.

And thank you for your kind words :)
 

A. Gabriel

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Jun 13, 2018
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Returning to the horse carcass which has already been thoroughly tenderized from a severe beating, I found this video in which the dev team explain the modifications made to their real time sinking animation:


Notable things worth mentioning:

1) Around the 09:00 mark Mr Lynskey mentions having to add rigging to the model and applying rope/cable physics to the modeled rigging as well. Perhaps this may account for the #1 funnel falling to port? Titanic's pronounced port list should mean that the funnel would have been leaning towards port as well, and then the assumption is that its weight caused the starboard funnel stays to snap as it fell towards the side it leaned to.

2) At the 09:27 mark the behavior of the lights is discussed, including the infamous 'some lights were on after the breakup' conjecture. It would seem Messrs Stephenson and Sauder were consulted on the matter, and there are apparently claims of survivor testimony concerning the presence of some of the lights after the breakup. But the emergency lights remaining on until 30 seconds after the breakup???

New physics problem: assuming the breakup as the time of steam supply cutoff, how long would it actually take for the two emergency dynamos to freewheel down from 380 rpm to a stop? Note that the lights would die out even before the dynamos stopped because at some point the revs per minute will become too slow to generate any perceptible electricity that would give even a dull red glow.
 

Kyle Naber

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Oct 5, 2016
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I think they’re still going to have the funnels fall to port in the direction of the list, possibly with the exception of the second funnel.
 

Ryan Burns

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Sep 23, 2016
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I'm an attorney who has done some copyright work in the past.

I agree wholeheartedly with your post. What they are doing is a waste of time, energy, and resources. They just need to focus on their own game.
 

Roxas84

Member
Dec 29, 2017
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I remember I heard some copyright issues with the purser office on C deck, they found out there was the same volontary mistakes they made for the demo 3, I don't remember any other troubles. Titanic VR avoid to put the 3 windows between reception room and dining room to avoid problems.

But here was some other little projetcs that cleary copied the entire demo 3 models using Paint ahah so it was justified

Titanic VR is just a game where you explore the wreck with very few light I don't even noticed some parts were the same as H&G, so nobody noticed it I guess.

So being paranoid with thieves could be a huge waste of energy and time and could scare the investors even more when some members of the team claim on some titanic vr posts they stole models...

I also remember a time when H&G claimed copyright issues to a project but at the end it was not the case so the team made some apologizes...outch ahah.

This kind of behavior could make people think they are very arrogant and litigious and again could scare investors. I don't think all the members of the team are arrogant, they seem to be good guys focused only on the modeling of the ship.

But I also noticed that since H&G became serious lots of Titanic projects have apeared so most of the time the team has right cuz people can't just steal models and research like that but to attack a big team like Titanic VR, who has much more video games experience, for tiny details is just suicide and maybe it could ruin the entire project. So be careful guys

But to be honnest I didn't see any lawsuit traces between Titanic VR and H&G, so who claimed it was the case ? I hope it's not just another crazy fan scam or revenge
 
Last edited:
Dec 23, 2017
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Returning to the horse carcass which has already been thoroughly tenderized from a severe beating, I found this video in which the dev team explain the modifications made to their real time sinking animation:


Notable things worth mentioning:

1) Around the 09:00 mark Mr Lynskey mentions having to add rigging to the model and applying rope/cable physics to the modeled rigging as well. Perhaps this may account for the #1 funnel falling to port? Titanic's pronounced port list should mean that the funnel would have been leaning towards port as well, and then the assumption is that its weight caused the starboard funnel stays to snap as it fell towards the side it leaned to.

2) At the 09:27 mark the behavior of the lights is discussed, including the infamous 'some lights were on after the breakup' conjecture. It would seem Messrs Stephenson and Sauder were consulted on the matter, and there are apparently claims of survivor testimony concerning the presence of some of the lights after the breakup. But the emergency lights remaining on until 30 seconds after the breakup???

New physics problem: assuming the breakup as the time of steam supply cutoff, how long would it actually take for the two emergency dynamos to freewheel down from 380 rpm to a stop? Note that the lights would die out even before the dynamos stopped because at some point the revs per minute will become too slow to generate any perceptible electricity that would give even a dull red glow.

As someone who works in UE4 i can assure you its not like real life physics. What he means by that is the feature in UE4 called cable components, its basically a tool that allows you to have a component twist and bend like a cable and not a static mesh. You can see it here, you still have to animate it in some ways. Cable Component

Also what should be noted that i figured out in my recreation of the updated animation (you can actually play it in the Real-Time Demo thread, shameless plug:p) is that the final plunge lasts 7-8 minutes in total and the stern lasting around 82 seconds. This could in theory be said to have based of the Bridge clock but as discussed in the new article on Bill Wormstedt's site it can not be used as a reference as the hands where not connected even when recovered.

This is a sense leaves the updated animation with no actual basis of a real time stamp though Parks has alluded to me that there is a analysis that was conducted that for some reason has been kept hush hush for 6 years and has not been shared that supports this and the 2012 theory.

In all i have come to the theory that the updated H&G animation was for whatever reason was made on purpose inaccurate. My first guess is so they can catch copy cats, and since it was used only for internal use and to help pitch it to investors they had no need to make it accurate. Thats my best guess