Titanic passengers or not


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Dennis Foley

Guest
Hi: I am reviewing Issue 40 of Titanic Commutator (1973) which lists all living survivors who were members of the THS at that time. I have come across 3 names that I can't seem to find anywhere on ET or anywhere else yet who are listed as Titanic passengers. They are:

(1) Mr. V. Bergeron, Montreal, Quebec;
(2) Mrs. Mary Lutton, Taft, California; and
(3) Mr. George W. Moran, Berks, England

Anybody got any dope on these? Thanks. Dennis
 
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Dennis Foley

Guest
I guess Olga Anderson is the same Olga Lundin, 3rd class pax? Dennis
 
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Arthur Brian SMITH

Guest
I am trying to confirm information that I have been given that my grand fathers brothers were lost in the Titanic sinking. Their surname was MASSARA, they were italian born having migrated to the UK, worked in the hotel/hospitality industry and were intent on going to the USA.
I have no idea if they were passengers or crew and so far from searching this site have not been able to locate any reference to that surname.
Would appreciate any input from Titanic specialists

Arthur Smith
 

Dave Gittins

Member
Apr 11, 2001
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Arthur, the list on this site are very authoritative, having been compiled by careful researchers. Very few Italians were on board, other than members of the restaurant staff. I can see no names resembling Massara among them, so I think that you have yet another family legend. It happens all the time.
 

Mike Herbold

Member
Feb 13, 2001
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Doing a quick check of the California death records, there is a record of Mrs. Mary Lutton, born 6/26/1899 and died 4/28/1994. That would have made her 12 at the time the Titanic sank. Her mother's maiden name was Watson and her father's name was McGee. However, there is no record of a Mary McGee or any passengers named McGee aboard. There were crew members by that name.
 

Arne Mjåland

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Oct 21, 2001
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Have you seen the homepage by Edward T Saadi, attorney at Law, The Maronite Institute? Edward writes an interesting story about his ancestors from Lebanon. He writes about his grandfather Youssef Mikhail Ibrahim, also called Joseph Michael Abraham having told his doughter that he had a ticket for the Titanic, but did not make it to England in time to board the ship.
Probably the story is not true, but I bring it because there has been so little research about Libanese Titanic passengers.
 

Mike Herbold

Member
Feb 13, 2001
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Arne:
There was a book published early last year called "From Mt. Lebanon to the Sea of Darkness" by John Moses that was intended to be about the Lebanese and Syrians aboard Titanic, but it had very little new information. What's the URL on Saadi's homepage, BTW.
 
Aug 29, 2002
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Hi Mike - Thought I should bring you up to date on my research re William Gillespie as there was speculation that perhaps his ticket was refunded. He was on 2 lists and believe there may have been a companion who cancelled - hence the refund as Debbie Beavis indicated. My research shows he was indeed a passenger and went down with the ship. Senan Molony who lives in Dublin, wrote "Irish on Board Titanic", has furnished me with info re the family, death certificate,obituary in local newspaper, tablet in Abbeyleix cemetary next to his parents, relief fund in his memory after the disaster, etc. His firm furnished much of the fine carpeting on the ship and he was on a business trip to Canada. I am grateful for the help of ET members and will continue my research. Carolyn
 

Arne Mjåland

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Oct 21, 2001
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It is facinating to read about the gamblers connected with the Titanic wether they were onboard, or not.
Here is an article about some of them in Commercial News (U.S.A.) April 20 1912:
FAMOUS CROOKS PERISH
"Although Doc Owens most famous of all transatlantic gamblers, did not lose his life on the Titanic for the simple reason that he never boarded her. Several other figures well known to the police of many cities will probably be seen no more in their old haunts. One of those who is said to ahve gone down when the Titanic sank is Harry Silverton, who usually travels under the alias of J. Coleman Drayton, thereby utilizing to the full extent the high standing of that millionaire clubman. Others who are said to have perished are Old Man Jordan, Jim Kitchner, Buffalo Murphy and One Armed Mac, whose real name is unknown to even his best friends."
Are any of you familiar with any of these names?
 

George Behe

Member
Dec 11, 1999
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Hi, Arne!

Yes, each of those men was mentioned in my 1982 Commutator article about the Titanic's gamblers. (The article even contains a photo of 'Harry Silverton' aka 'Tricky' Silverton (whose true name was Harry Silberberg.)

I agree with you -- it's fascinating to read about this class of men and the life they led.

All my best,

George
 
Dec 7, 2000
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George,

I've been at this for some time, but I finally have the opportunity to buy the original 1982 Commutators where your article featured!
happy.gif


***

George's absolutely excellent article on the Gamblers has prompted some modern insight into the Gamblers by others and myself with a few more sources that are available today. Hermann Soldner is one of the people who also looked into this and acquired copies of some passenger lists. There were about 16 gamblers who spread themselves over 3 ships. Here are the results:

44673.jpg


In addition to Brayton, Haven and Rolmane, the names of Messrs Melody and White can be found on Titanic’s Board of Trade Southampton departure and the first class passenger lists distributed to passengers aboard Titanic. After the disaster, two of Titanic’s gamblers wired friends in New York to report the deaths of Melody and White. In reality the two sailed on the Celtic with fellow gambler John Killinger. The fact that they appeared on two passenger lists as late as April 10, and their colleagues believed them to be drowned, suggests that their decision not to sail was a last minute one.

Regards,

Daniel.
 

George Behe

Member
Dec 11, 1999
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Hi, Daniel!

Thanks very much for your kind words about my gambler article; that was my very first article about the Titanic (and I've gone steadily downhill ever since.) :)

Thanks, too, for the additional information about Melody and company. Congratulations on your excellent detective work, old chap! (I feel that researching the gamblers is one instance where the term "detective work" is 100% appropriate.) :)

Mike Herbold and Phil Gowan have also done some outstanding research on 'Kid' Homer, 'Boy' Bradley and Harry Romaine. All in all, terrific work by terrific researchers (and terrific friends.)

All my best,

George
 
Dec 7, 2000
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George,

Thank you for your kind words. You're too modest about your work. Ever since your article, your research and information you've uncovered has flourished! It's interesting about the gamblers, out of the 16 of them and the 3 ships they sailed on -- one of which sank -- the only person that died was on a ship that actually reached port. They really are a fascinating bunch to research and read about.

Regards,

Daniel.
 

Arne Mjåland

Member
Oct 21, 2001
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On BELGIUM-ROOTS project RMS Titanic (1912-1912)I found this entry:
"Camille Carolus Waeyaert
Butcher
Born Zarren 13 Feb 1869
Resided Damme, province if West Flanders
It is uncertain wether he was actually on board of the Titanic since he is not mentioned in any passenger list. In a letter to his family he confirms that he arrived safely in the United States.
Survivor."
Have any of you heard about him before?
 
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Robbie Tresham

Guest
Stowaway discovered? Can anyone enlighten me as to who the stowaway was? I think he was Italian and that he was hiding in one of the boats. But how did he manage for food and drinks? Or did he climb out of the boat and mingle with passengers.
And how was he able to get on board, and where?
Help please and thanks.
 
Aug 29, 2002
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Mike,- just received documents from Senan Molony which show that the Irish police in 1926 conducted a special investigation re my uncle William Henry Gillespie, This new info establishes that Uncle Will was indeed a passenger on board the Titanic. His body was never recovered. I appreciate the help of ET, esp. Senan Molony who wrote a very enlightening book called "Irish Aboard the Titanic". ButI'm still hoping to find a photo of my uncle somewhere. Yours was, I believe, the first message received last year when I first logged on. So I wanted you to know what I've recently learned. You had mentioned other links in the Sacramento area but I haven't been able to find them so far. Carolyn
 

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