Titanic's Name On The Wreck


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Mike Bull

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Dec 23, 2000
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My apologies if this has been covered before on this vast, wonderful forum, but I was wondering about the ship's name and the various efforts to reveal it on the wreck.

We know Balard looked but couldn't really see anything, we know the French scraped it bare in '87. Surely, if the ship's name was even partially revealed, we'd have seen it by now? Is this another annoying case that 99% of the footage taken on any given expedition is never shown? Instead, all we ever see is the tip of the bow etc.

I don't believe in it's ridiculous Titanic/Olympic switch theory for a minute, but that guy who wrote 'The Ship That Never Sank' seemed to think that instead of the letters 'TITANIC' incised into the hull, the RAISED letters found included an 'O' and an 'M' etc. (He helpfully tells us in his book that these letters are not found in the name 'Titanic'. The guy is a genius)

So what has been found, and has anyone out there ever seen a picture of it? They show us the '401' on the prop often enough, why don't they parade the ship's name too?
 
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Christine Geyer

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Hi Mike !

All I've ever heard about that was from Ballad himself in in his book "The Discovery of the Titanic". He says that he carefully counted the portholes to find the place where the ships name had to be but it was all full of rust. Only on the videotapes they could see the contours of a "C" on the portside of the bow.

I would assume that if it was possible to see the full name that would be a very welcome motive to publish, just as succintly as the bow. So we had a little change in the design of dust jackets, as the famous bow is really everywhere. If it was revealed I'm sure they'd use it. So I personally guess it's still under rust. Have you ever heard that they're active efforts to reveal it ??

As for the "O" and the "M" I would suggest that could stand for "Oh My" ...
crazy.gif


Many regards
Christine
 

Mike Bull

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Christine, yes the French set out to reveal the name in their first salvage trip of 1987, the one that pulled the light off the mast/broke the crows nest off ect etc. If Robin Gardiner says that something was revealed, even if he wants to believe that the letters spelt 'Olympic' and not 'Titanic', has there ever been a picture published anywhere of what was found? I'd LOVE to see one, can anyone help?
 

Dave Hudson

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Apr 25, 2001
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Hey
I doubt that the O and the M were ever recovered. Appearently no one on this board recalls its recovery, and I assume we would have if it was (what better artifacts to parade in the travelling exhibit). Imean, the only evidence of it comes from an author who still believe that the Titanic was scrapped in 1935. How convenient that the only letters found were not part of the word "TITANIC" at all. It would be more believable if the letters were, say, C, I, Y, or some combination like that. Do you guys know what I mean? Anyway, even if it was Olympic that sank that night, I'm sure that White Star would have at least changed the nameplates (come on, like no one is gonna notice the name TITANIC on the "Olympic" for 23 years).
Does anything that I said make sense to you guys?
David.
 
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martin mc master

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Hi all
I don't know if this will be of assistance or not. I recently purchased a set of Titanic plans from Harland & Wolff. In the rigging plans it shows the name Titanic on the starboard view with instructions stating (18" letters cut in.) The same instructions are given for the stern except the port of registry is 12" letters cut in. This being the case would it not be impossible to find any letters lying about. The plans appear to suggest the name was cut into the actual hull and then painted in.
 

Jason D. Tiller

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Hi all,

In one of the videos I own which I can't remember the name of it right now, it clearly shows the letter "T" on the bow of the Titanic. It also points out the letter "I" as well.

I'll see which video of mine this is and I'll post it when I find it. On the issue of the switching of the Olympic and Titanic, this has been dismissed as totally false. It was thought that it was done because of an insurance claim and that White Star would benefit from it. When RMS Titanic Inc. went down to the wreck site, they identified Titanic with her yard number.

I hope I have helped.

Best regards,

Jason
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Dave Gittins

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The switch was never a rumour. It was pure invention by Gardiner and Van der Vat. Many people never bothered to read all their book. Those who did would have found that they go on to deny that it ever happened. It's on page 261 of the edition I read. It's not worth even discussing, except as an example of how people just don't pay attention.
 

Jason D. Tiller

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Hi Dave,

Thanks for the interesting information! I got my information from Stephen J. Spignesi's book The Complete Titanic on pages 260-263. It sure puts on a new twist on it, being it "pure invention" by the authors as you mentioned. What is their book called? Is it any good? Do you know what their purpose was of inventing it? Funny, I've never heard of them.

Correction on my last post, it was Ballard who discovered that it was the Titanic when he found it, not RMS Titanic Inc. That doesn't matter now though as Dave has posted the opposite. Just thought I point it out though!

Best regards,

Jason
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Dave Gittins

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Gardiner's first book was published under two names. One was "The Titanic Conspiracy" and the other was "The Riddle of the Titanic". I'm not sure if they differ slightly. Recently he produced something called "The Ship that Never Sank".

The obvious purpose of the claim was to sell books. That's a more common motivation for writing trash than many people realise.

They rank among the worst Titanic books of all time. Read them at a library if you must but don't waste money on them.
 

Jason D. Tiller

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Hi Dave,

I think I have heard of "The Riddle of the Titanic" and "The Ship that Never Sank". I haven't heard of "The Titanic Conspiracy though.

You're right about the purpose of the claim and that it's pretty common. I quite agree.

Thank you for the advice! I'll definitely have an look at them at an library, but in no way waste money on them.

Thanks again!

Best regards,

Jason
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Christine Geyer

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Hi all,

that was pretty interesting to hear. Would be nice to see what is already readable. Maybe they'll soon come out with some photographs !?

Jason, I have a documentary on video where the autor of the switch theory is interviewed and since I've seen that I haven't even wasted my time on the exemplar at the library.

Many regards
Christine
 
Jun 10, 1999
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Pardon me for this belated entry...

Whereupon a culmination of dives by NAUTILE and under the command of P.H. NARGEOLET, indeed the portside bow 18" encised letters...T I T A N I C were revealed.

The footage of the aforementioned was publically aired in a 1987, controversial yet seemingly rare televison broadcast..."Return to the Titanic, live from Paris France" (Joslyn).

If you are unable to access this video footage, then you will be delighted to know of an alternate source..."Titanic Adventure" by Jennifer Carter, the first woman to dive on the wreck. Ms. Carter goes into depth on the revelation of the portside bow letters.

BTW, Charles Haas, as an observer aboard NAUTILE in 1996 returned to the precise location of these same bow plates, however the nine-year lapse had indeed consumed what remained of the cut-in letters.

Michael Cunduiff
 
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You are correct Mr Cunduiff, I have a copy of the 1987 special and they do show the letters. My husband sat at home and specifically taped this special. He was absolutely riveted to the new footage they showed, and enhanced the interest I had. This is where they uncover the "AMY" bracelet that is so frequently speculated about. Although there is allot of hype and flashing lights, I am glad to have it.
Colleen
 

Mike Bull

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Dec 23, 2000
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Michael, this 'Titanic Adventure' by Jennifer Carter you mention, is that a book then? I've not heard of that one. If so, does it have any pictures of the name on the bow?

And it's sad to hear that just a few years have wiped the name away. But we will NEVER forget the name of that ship, will we?
 
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Ale Del Gobbo

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Hi all,
I've read the 1st Gardiner&VanderVaat book, 'The Titanic Cospiracy' (in Italy is: 'I due Titanic'), and the story 'invented' by the authors is not, IMO, credible.
G&VdV state that the White Star, after the Hawke accident, planned to use the 'repaired' Olympic for the maiden voyage of the Titanic, and to let her sink for drawing money of assurances.... kind of incredible, isn't it?
They say that White Star planned the iceberg accident when a lot of ships near the Olympic could rescue the passengers but an error of Smith about calculation of distances caused the accident with the enormous loss of life.
I don't know there is in the other Gardiner book but, in the 1st book there is an accurate reconstruction of the building and fitting out of the Titanic, with measures etc.
Bye

Ale
 
Jul 9, 2000
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Ale, if you go to the <FONT COLOR="ff0000">Collision/Sinking Theories folder and down to the BELIEVE IT OR NOT thread, you'll see that we discussed Gardiner's silly theory at length and came to the same conclusions you did. The insurance scam proposition floats about as well as a lead brick when you find out that the $7,500,000 Titanic was underinsured by $2,500,000. In 1912, that was hardly chump change.

Great that Gardiner and Van der Vaat got the particulars right at least. Considering that this data is a matter of very public record, there's no excuse not to.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 
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Ale Del Gobbo

Guest
Whoops, I hadn't read that thread, sorry for the repetition of something well known.
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Bye

Ale
 
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Ale Del Gobbo

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Whoa I've just finished to read the whole thread... And now, I'm totally sure that this 'theory' is absurd and incredible...
I didn't know there were a so strong debate about this book...
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Bye

Ale
 
Jul 9, 2000
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G'Day Ale. I'm not so sure there would be much of a debate at all if some conspiracy theorists were not so enamoured with the thing. Otherwise, most of us would be too busy trying to hold back our laughter at the absurdity of the whole proposition.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 
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Robert Forrest Howie

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If it's of any interest to anyone I used ideas from the two Gardiner books with my class of 11 year olds. I wanted them to see that history isn't just a set of written records - it also involves common sense and a healthy touch of scepticism. The result ? Lots of comments such as 'wow I never knew that' ' I believe it' and by the end 'yeah - I don't think so...'.

I must admit I was proud that most of them were really interested in finding out more (you do have to leave them just 1% of uncertainty to get them going back to it in their own time after all). The overall opinion was that the conspiracy was highly unlikely.

BTW while we are on the subject of huge claims made in the book which are unsubstantiated, does anyone have the source for Gardiner's claim that Fleet was on the phone to the bridge for around 25 mins (The Ship that Never Sank) ? I looked at the bibliography but there must be a typo as no source is named...

Cheers
 
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