Jim Currie

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Do we think that because the hull of Titanic was structurally unsound after the break-up that that may have contributed to the possible implosion.

Honestly, I think that the stern section imploded not as violently as in the James Cameron video but I think that it happened. And that when the stirn hit the sea bed, she broke apart into what she looks like now because of the weekend structure from the breakup, and the minor implosion, the decent and the hydraulic downburst effect.

That's just a there tho. Tell me what y'all think!
Hello Keith.

The fact that a double ottom section was found on the seabed separate and remote from the forward and aft main sections, showes that the hull tore apart before it hit the sea bed.
For any section of the hull to implode, that section must contain trapped air at ambient temp. and pressure.
In all ships, there is a problem of "sweat"- condensation. Consequently, unless a compartment is not affected by sweat it will be constantly ventilated. Since the hull separated on the surface, air would inundate all open compartments. It follows that the only spaces that might - I say might because seals give under pressuer - would have been refrigerated spaces.
 
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Cam Houseman

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Hello Keith.

The fact that a double ottom section was found on the seabed separate and remote from the forward and aft main sections, showes that the hull tore apart before it hit the sea bed.
For any section of the hull to implode, that section must contain trapped air at ambient temp. and pressure.
In all ships, there is a problem of "sweat"- condensation. Consequently, unless a compartment is not affected by sweat it will be constantly ventilated. Since the hull separated on the surface, air would inundate all open compartments. It follows that the only spaces that might - I say might because seals give under pressuer - would have been refrigerated spaces.
Lovely that this is still somehow alive

My final .2 into this, I think if anything, the refrigeration compartments would be the areas to implode, since they were thickly insulated
1615152102227.png

from what I have heard from reports, and books, is that this area looks crushed in

on your point Jim, yes, the Double bottom pieces are clearly evidence she broke on the surface. The distance Aft "Tower", and the forward tower, also are more evidence that the Stern was corkscrewing.
The bow did not since that section had fully flooded, and evened out since the keel is the heaviest part of the ship
 
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Lovely that this is still somehow alive

My final .2 into this, I think if anything, the refrigeration compartments would be the areas to implode, since they were thickly insulated
View attachment 75945
from what I have heard from reports, and books, is that this area looks crushed in

on your point Jim, yes, the Double bottom pieces are clearly evidence she broke on the surface. The distance Aft "Tower", and the forward tower, also are more evidence that the Stern was corkscrewing.
The bow did not since that section had fully flooded, and evened out since the keel is the heaviest part of the ship
You could be right about that. They should have been closed and a prime candidate for implosion. Plus they might have accounted for some of the cork reported floating about afterwards if cork was used for insulation as I have read. Lots of coulds and if's and might's in my post but a plausible theory none the less.
 
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Cam Houseman

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You could be right about that. They should have been closed and a prime candidate for implosion. Plus they might have accounted for some of the cork reported floating about afterwards if cork was used for insulation as I have read. Lots of coulds and if's and might's in my post but a plausible theory none the less.
Thanks Steven! I agree

Also, sorry I made a typo
"the Double bottom pieces are clearly evidence she broke on the surface. The distance Aft "Tower", and the forward tower, also are more evidence that the Stern was corkscrewing."
I meant to say "the distance *of* the Aft Tower and forward tower apart, also are more evidence that the Stern was corkscrewing."
 

Keith H

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I covered the imploding refrigeration rooms in an earlier post , by the nature of there construction the refrigerated rooms on the Orlop and G deck would have been air tight and as the water pressure built up around them would have "pulled in" the structure around them as they were crushed by the water pressure around them before imploding devastating that part of the ship under the aft well deck. Also the rear most bottom compartment by the stern glands was completely watertight.
The parts of the double bottom that were found were from the forward of the engine room onwards ,but what is interesting about them is the keel is bent upwards indicating the double bottom bent upwards before parting from the rest of the ship so there is food for thought on what occurred there. ,
 

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Hello Keith.

The fact that a double ottom section was found on the seabed separate and remote from the forward and aft main sections, showes that the hull tore apart before it hit the sea bed.
For any section of the hull to implode, that section must contain trapped air at ambient temp. and pressure.
In all ships, there is a problem of "sweat"- condensation. Consequently, unless a compartment is not affected by sweat it will be constantly ventilated. Since the hull separated on the surface, air would inundate all open compartments. It follows that the only spaces that might - I say might because seals give under pressuer - would have been refrigerated spaces.
True! I should have remembered the double bottom lol. And what you said makes sense thank you!
:D
 

Jim Currie

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I covered the imploding refrigeration rooms in an earlier post , by the nature of there construction the refrigerated rooms on the Orlop and G deck would have been air tight and as the water pressure built up around them would have "pulled in" the structure around them as they were crushed by the water pressure around them before imploding devastating that part of the ship under the aft well deck. Also the rear most bottom compartment by the stern glands was completely watertight.
The parts

of the double bottom that were found were from the forward of the engine room onwards ,but what is interesting about them is the keel is bent upwards indicating the double bottom bent upwards before parting from the rest of the ship so there is food for thought on what occurred there. ,
Hello Keith,

There were no sealed compartments around the stern glands or at the stern. The refrigerated meat spaces would have been fitted with ventilators, which in turn would have been fitted with internal wooden plugs. As soon as the outside pressure got too high, the plugs would be displaced inward and the space would flood. The aft door into the hatchway would blow and the hatchway would flood up ward, displacing the hatch covers. The internal surfaces of the refrigerated spaces would be insulated with an 8 inch thick, non- absorbent layer of cork granules about the size of a pea, held in place by 3/4 inch thick wood batons or planks. these would easily have been displaced by the maelstrom of high pressure water in the spaces.
As for the bent Keel?
It takes a considerable force to bend a vertical plate, vertically. However if you imagine the Keel being bent over a giant's knee until it breaks, you will discover that the broken ends will both be bent upward.
Can you picture the scene?
 
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Cam Houseman

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Hello Keith,

There were no sealed compartments around the stern glands or at the stern. The refrigerated meat spaces would have been fitted with ventilators, which in turn would have been fitted with internal wooden plugs. As soon as the outside pressure got too high, the plugs would be displaced inward and the space would flood. The aft door into the hatchway would blow and the hatchway would flood up ward, displacing the hatch covers. The internal surfaces of the refrigerated spaces would be insulated with an 8 inch thick, non- absorbent layer of cork granules about the size of a pea, held in place by 3/4 inch thick wood batons or
Ah, but how long would it take to displace that plug? The stern was going very fast downwards. I bet the Stern could've gone 100 feet in 10-20 seconds.
 

Keith H

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Hello Keith,

There were no sealed compartments around the stern glands or at the stern. The refrigerated meat spaces would have been fitted with ventilators, which in turn would have been fitted with internal wooden plugs. As soon as the outside pressure got too high, the plugs would be displaced inward and the space would flood. The aft door into the hatchway would blow and the hatchway would flood up ward, displacing the hatch covers. The internal surfaces of the refrigerated spaces would be insulated with an 8 inch thick, non- absorbent layer of cork granules about the size of a pea, held in place by 3/4 inch thick wood batons or planks. these would easily have been displaced by the maelstrom of high pressure water in the spaces.
As for the bent Keel?
It takes a considerable force to bend a vertical plate, vertically. However if you imagine the Keel being bent over a giant's knee until it breaks, you will discover that the broken ends will both be bent upward.
Can you picture the scene?
There is one compartment at the stern gland of the centre propeller tunnel with a water tight deck head though there is an escape shaft up from that compartment so would not be completely sealed water tight. .
I think the theory is that the stern sank quicker than the air in the refrigerated compartments could escape by normal means thus leading to implosion with quickening depth ( I calculate it at approx. 59 psi at 100 feet } as well as the stern sinking at first vertically after listing to one side which would also affect the escape of air inside compartments .
The keel is fascinating for the edge of the double bottom to bend upwards then what happened to the hull of the ship above it ? , did the rest of the hull above the two parts of the double bottom tear away from them or did the two parts bend up in a inverted "V" with the compressive loads placed apron them by the buckling of the now unsupported stern as the ship broke in two .
It would be interesting to find out more about the edges of both parts of the double bottoms to try to picture the scene , pity the sides of them is not in view to get an idea of what happened to the rest of the hull above them .
 

Cam Houseman

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There is one compartment at the stern gland of the centre propeller tunnel with a water tight deck head though there is an escape shaft up from that compartment so would not be completely sealed water tight. .
I think the theory is that the stern sank quicker than the air in the refrigerated compartments could escape by normal means thus leading to implosion with quickening depth ( I calculate it at approx. 59 psi at 100 feet } as well as the stern sinking at first vertically after listing to one side which would also affect the escape of air inside compartments .
The keel is fascinating for the edge of the double bottom to bend upwards then what happened to the hull of the ship above it ? , did the rest of the hull above the two parts of the double bottom tear away from them or did the two parts bend up in a inverted "V" with the compressive loads placed apron them by the buckling of the now unsupported stern as the ship broke in two .
It would be interesting to find out more about the edges of both parts of the double bottoms to try to picture the scene , pity the sides of them is not in view to get an idea of what happened to the rest of the hull above them .
We better go Keith, or we’ll be called “trolls” for believing the Stern imploded.

I have both mosaics of both double bottom pieces if you’re interested
 
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We better go Keith, or we’ll be called “trolls” for believing the Stern imploded.

I have both mosaics of both double bottom pieces if you’re interested
Ok you trolls...:p I recall reading ( I think on this site) that someone calculated that the stern would have been over 300 feet deep in the first minute after slipping under the water. Not sure how that was calculated. As for the 59 psi at 100 feet that would be adding the approx 14.7 psi normal pressure at sea level. That would be trapped inside the refrigerators if they were sealed so the effective pressure acting on them would be approx 45 psi as stated before. Yes that's being nit picky on my part but I use to have figure effective pressures all the time in my job. But 300 feet would have been more than the implosion depth of a WW1 submarine according to some sources I've read. But I'm guilty of looking at this using a modern refer so one can't apply the theory compared to what they had in 1912 like Mr. Curry said. I've never seen a refer with expansion plugs before. Only seen them on engines that I recall. Cheers.
 
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Cam Houseman

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Ok you trolls...:p I recall reading ( I think on this site) that someone calculated that the stern would have been over 300 feet deep in the first minute after slipping under the water. Not sure how that was calculated. As for the 59 psi at 100 feet that would be adding the approx 14.7 psi normal pressure at sea level. That would be trapped inside the refrigerators if they were sealed so the effective pressure acting on them would be approx 45 psi as stated before. Yes that's being nit picky on my part but I use to have figure effective pressures all the time in my job. But 300 feet would have been more than the implosion depth of a WW1 submarine according to some sources I've read. But I'm guilty of looking at this using a modern refer so one can't apply the theory compared to what they had in 1912 like Mr. Curry said. I've never seen a refer with expansion plugs before. Only seen them on engines that I recall. Cheers.
I bet the Third Class store could've imploded
 

Auden G Minor

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We've done this topic round and around and around...air in compartments would be swiftly compressed/forced out, it would not 'implode'. An implosion is an instantaneous event that occurs when an absolutely airtight vessel is overwhelmed by pressure; something like a refrigerator compartment would have at most been crushed over a few seconds as pressure mounted- IF they were that airtight, which I doubt they were.

Now, the fantail, everything aft of the rudder, would have had a lot of trapped air and might have 'imploded'...it was the very last section to go under after all and would have gone down very rapidly...except, it is still the most intact part of the whole stern section. Almost as if the air was quickly compressed and forced out instead...

Watch the famous video of the Oceanos sinking- there are plumes of spray coming out of it as it finally goes under, caused by air being forced out before it has even submerged. (From about six minutes on)

I see your point, but the Oceanos sank in 1991 and titanic sank in 1912, 2 different ships, 2 different companies, and 2 very different times. Oceanos was flooding from all the sinks, toilets, and showers. Titanic was flooding in the forward holds and boiler rooms 6 and 5. Oceanos had different ventilation types.
 
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Rose F.

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I see your point, but the Oceanos sank in 1991 and titanic sank in 1912, 2 different ships, 2 different companies, and 2 very different times. Oceanos was flooding from all the sinks, toilets, and showers. Titanic was flooding in the forward holds and boiler rooms 6 and 5. Oceanos had different ventilation types.
Prior to the breakup, yes, but after that, the stern would have been flooding from the rather large hole left when 2/3 of your ship goes missing, which would also pretty dramatically change the flooding patterns of both ships.
 
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Auden G Minor

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Prior to the breakup, yes, but after that, the stern would have been flooding from the rather large hole left when 2/3 of your ship goes missing, which would also pretty dramatically change the flooding patterns of both ships.
I agree.
 
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Mike Bull2019

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Yes, the point was that the last few minutes of the Oceanos sinking may help to illustrate the final plunge of Ttanic's stern, and nothing more than that.

Titanic's stern- by which I mean, the last couple of hundred feet or so- would likely be going under reasonably rapidly with very rapid flooding forcing the interior air out, as is visible on the Oceanos.
 
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Arun Vajpey

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The point here is that if small, sealed compartments like the refrigeration chamber or third class store could not floor and so failed to equalize, they might have succumbed to external water pressure. But that is NOT the same thing as claiming that the stern itself imploded, which it did not and could not have done. As several of us have pointed out before, the rapid flooding through the open deck spaces would have sharply reduced the pressure gradient between the outside and inside making an 'implosion' a physical impossibility. On the other hand, the inrush of water and forcing out of trapped air would have caused the peeling effect of the deck plates and eventually an explosive effect as the stern hit the bottom.
 
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