Rose F.

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Yes, the point was that the last few minutes of the Oceanos sinking may help to illustrate the final plunge of Ttanic's stern, and nothing more than that.

Titanic's stern- by which I mean, the last couple of hundred feet or so- would likely be going under reasonably rapidly with very rapid flooding forcing the interior air out, as is visible on the Oceanos.
Don't disagree there. My own point was more that the "flooding in the forward holds and boiler rooms 6 and 5" was mainly just limited to the beginning of the sinking, and by the break up her stern would be taking in even more water even faster, and thus be a "little" more comparable to the Oceanos.
 
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I see your point, but the Oceanos sank in 1991 and titanic sank in 1912, 2 different ships, 2 different companies, and 2 very different times. Oceanos was flooding from all the sinks, toilets, and showers. Titanic was flooding in the forward holds and boiler rooms 6 and 5. Oceanos had different ventilation types.
Wasn't familiar with this ship. Interesting reading about it. So from what I gathered they left out the non-return valve (check valve) after doing maintenance on the waste water piping. And another captain and crew abandoned the ship before the passengers. Seems to be a common occurrence in the last 30 years or so.
 
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Auden G Minor

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Wasn't familiar with this ship. Interesting reading about it. So from what I gathered they left out the non-return valve (check valve) after doing maintenance on the waste water piping. And another captain and crew abandoned the ship before the passengers. Seems to be a common occurrence in the last 30 years or so.
Yep that happens a lot. I would excuse the captain's of the Lusitania and the Emperess of Ireland. But this is off topic. :)
 
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Auden G Minor

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Yes, the point was that the last few minutes of the Oceanos sinking may help to illustrate the final plunge of Ttanic's stern, and nothing more than that.

Titanic's stern- by which I mean, the last couple of hundred feet or so- would likely be going under reasonably rapidly with very rapid flooding forcing the interior air out, as is visible on the Oceanos.
If you want a better example use a submarine, as they reach their imploding depths the implode.
 

Auden G Minor

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The point here is that if small, sealed compartments like the refrigeration chamber or third class store could not floor and so failed to equalize, they might have succumbed to external water pressure. But that is NOT the same thing as claiming that the stern itself imploded, which it did not and could not have done. As several of us have pointed out before, the rapid flooding through the open deck spaces would have sharply reduced the pressure gradient between the outside and inside making an 'implosion' a physical impossibility. On the other hand, the inrush of water and forcing out of trapped air would have caused the peeling effect of the deck plates and eventually an explosive effect as the stern hit the bottom.
How on earth does the water get in the sealed compartments? Because I don't think that the strong steel riveted plates would bend out like that. If you want to know how implosion works, I suggest you look at this website:
 
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Cam Houseman

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How on earth does the water get in the sealed compartments? Because I don't think that the strong steel riveted plates would bend out like that. If you want to know how implosion works, I suggest you look at this website:
Hello There!

I noticed, based off of the research of Mr. Roy Mengot, there is a large dent in the portside of the Stern, near the fairlead rollers.

I did my own research, and there is indeed a huge indent, maybe a meter deep, in that area.
I have outlined where it is visible in a screenshot from the 1986 documentary, "The Nightmare and the Dream"

WHOI, 1986
1617754727043.png


the video of Dr. Ballard leaving the plaque on the stern, it is also visible (same documentary). I have again outlined where the indent begins
WHOI 1986
1617755046751.png


the doors to the Steering gear room are also gone

Courtesy of Bill Sauder
Third Class Smoking Room Interior.JPG


here, in 2003, although a little more of the poop deck has collapsed, the indent is still visible (note the wood too!!!)
NOAA 2003
1617755725109.png


the poop deck peeled back just forward of where the bulkhead separates the Steering gear room and Third Class General Room and the Third Class Smoking Room. I am convinced:
A. The Poop Deck was hit by something heavy
B. the Steering gear room imploded, and that is why there is a huge dent, possibly 5 meters deep, between the edge of the fantail, and where it meets the folded back poop deck

hope y'all find this interesting!
 
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It is interesting. But she's been down there a long time. No telling what might have caused it. Could have deformed just from coming apart as in stress being transferred from one part of the structure to another. I say that because I experienced something similar although maybe not the best example. But here goes anyway. My ship got caught in a typhoon. Around midnight we got hit broadside with what some called a rouge wave. I'm not sure that description is accurate but it shook my ship pretty violently. The next morning when we mustered for duty there were a bunch of people inspecting the deck in our assembly area. It had about a 4 to 5 inch hump in it. It was the armored deck. They said it was a result of the wave that smacked us which makes sense because it wasn't there the day before. But we were getting hammered all night long with other damage so who knows for sure. We also had 2 jets break their tiedowns and slide into other planes. Plus in 2 of the magazines we had pallets of bombs break their tiedowns also and caused a huge mess. I got to clean that up. My point to my sea story is that stress damage can be transferred from one point to another.
 
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Cam Houseman

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It is interesting. But she's been down there a long time. No telling what might have caused it. Could have deformed just from coming apart as in stress being transferred from one part of the structure to another. I say that because I experienced something similar although maybe not the best example. But here goes anyway. My ship got caught in a typhoon. Around midnight we got hit broadside with what some called a rouge wave. I'm not sure that description is accurate but it shook my ship pretty violently. The next morning when we mustered for duty there were a bunch of people inspecting the deck in our assembly area. It had about a 4 to 5 inch hump in it. It was the armored deck. They said it was a result of the wave that smacked us which makes sense because it wasn't there the day before. But we were getting hammered all night long with other damage so who knows for sure. We also had 2 jets break their tiedowns and slide into other planes. Plus in 2 of the magazines we had pallets of bombs break their tiedowns also and caused a huge mess. I got to clean that up. My point to my sea story is that stress damage can be transferred from one point to another.
interesting!
Good to know your (assuming) carrier didn't commit a Poseidon Adventure :)

I must have been something huge, its in the shape of a half bowl
 

Cam Houseman

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interesting!
Good to know your (assuming) carrier didn't commit a Poseidon Adventure :)

I must have been something huge, its in the shape of a half bowl
slight correction meant to say "it must have been something huge, its in the shape of a half bowl, and dented maybe 5-10 feet from the overturned poop deck to the fairlead rollers, if not an implosion.

Cool story by the way Steven!
 
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slight correction meant to say "it must have been something huge, its in the shape of a half bowl, and dented maybe 5-10 feet from the overturned poop deck to the fairlead rollers, if not an implosion.

Cool story by the way Steven!
It was cool after it was over...:) I don't think there was any chance of her foundering it was just one hell of a rough ride. Some of the older guys who had been on many west-pacs said it was the worst one they had been through. The escorts ships had it much worse. I'm sure many of the career salts here had gone through similar or worse. When I saw many of the older experienced guys getting sea sick I knew it was something out of the ordinary. But it was my one and only typhoon at sea so probably not the best judge of these things. Cheers.
 
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I followed that story when it happened. There wasn't much news reporting at the time. Unfortunately what a lot people feared happened turned out to true. I've read a lot about submarine disasters. The only solace to those events is that they say when it happens (implosion) its quick. But back to Titanic and the stern. I don't think anything like happened. Too much damage from her tearing apart and many avenues open to the sea to flood.
 

Auden G Minor

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I followed that story when it happened. There wasn't much news reporting at the time. Unfortunately what a lot people feared happened turned out to true. I've read a lot about submarine disasters. The only solace to those events is that they say when it happens (implosion) its quick. But back to Titanic and the stern. I don't think anything like happened. Too much damage from her tearing apart and many avenues open to the sea to flood.
 
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That's a good video. Thanks for posting it. But I still believe there was too much damage. I've said there could have been small spaces sealed but nothing that would have caused a catastrophic implosion. The No. 4 funnel opening alone would have flooded her rapidly once she (stern) dipped under the surface. Just my take on it.
 
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Auden G Minor

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That's a good video. Thanks for posting it. But I still believe there was too much damage. I've said there could have been small spaces sealed but nothing that would have caused a catastrophic implosion. The No. 4 funnel opening alone would have flooded her rapidly once she (stern) dipped under the surface. Just my take on it.
That is fair and I respect your opinion.
 
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That is fair and I respect your opinion.
And I respect yours and all the others here. It's one of things that nobody can really know for sure. Some here don't like opinions or speculation and that's ok. I understand where they are coming from. As for me as long as it's stated as such then its fine by me. There's so many aspects of Titanic we can't really know for sure. Just like many other subjects concerning history. But that's part of the fun of it. Cheers.
 
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Arun Vajpey

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Some here don't like opinions or speculation and that's ok.
Yes, it is OK but there are limitations to that.

As far as I am concerned (and talking about the Titanic tragedy) certain types of speculation are necessary - even inevitable, but others are not. For example, human behaviour is unpredictable and highly variable and so we can only best guess what Lily May Futrelle or Martta Hiltunen or John Collins or William Murdoch was doing at any given time based on what evidence is available. That 'evidence' in itself is almost entirely based on survivor accounts and so subject to variation and/or incompatibility.

On the other hand, events like implosion or not, rate of flooding of any particular compartment etc follow laws of physics and cannot be twisted around to suit one's belief.
 

Cam Houseman

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On the other hand, events like implosion or not, rate of flooding of any particular compartment etc follow laws of physics and cannot be twisted around to suit one's belief.
we cannot firmly say the stern did not implode, or at least small sections, because we were not there. it may be unlikely, but it could have happened.
 

Auden G Minor

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Yes, it is OK but there are limitations to that.

As far as I am concerned (and talking about the Titanic tragedy) certain types of speculation are necessary - even inevitable, but others are not. For example, human behaviour is unpredictable and highly variable and so we can only best guess what Lily May Futrelle or Martta Hiltunen or John Collins or William Murdoch was doing at any given time based on what evidence is available. That 'evidence' in itself is almost entirely based on survivor accounts and so subject to variation and/or incompatibility.

On the other hand, events like implosion or not, rate of flooding of any particular compartment etc follow laws of physics and cannot be twisted around to suit one's belief.
That is true. But sometime people assume things.
 

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