Turbine Room Circulating Pumps

[Cam Houseman]

Hi y'all,

I'm wondering the specific components of the Circulating Pumps from the Turbine Room.

I searched through and found a post from a Mr. James Hefner on July 3rd, 2004:

"Four centrifugal pumps were used as circulating water pumps for the two condensers. (These circulated cooling water through the tubes of the condensers.) The two main circulating pumps were powered by two cylinder compound engines; the two auxiliary circulating pumps by single cylinder engines. Each pump had suction and discharge pipes of 20 in. bore. All four had suction pipes that were open to the sea outside the hull, but all four also had suctions down in the bilge (bottom) of the hull. Two could pump water from the reciprocating engine rooms, and two from the turbine room. I don't know who the builder was; I have seen in other ships were the shipyard itself built the circulating water pumps."

I don't know whether he meant these pumps (below, from the 1911 Shipbuilder Special Numbers issue)

Could someone mark this up, please?

The Circulating Pumps are still together, and they separated from the Stern, with the outside hull still attached.
(History Channel 2012, "Titanic at 100: Mystery Solved", RMST Inc/WHOI, 2010)

Thanks, I really appreciate any help!


-Cam.

 

[William Oakes]

Cam,
I would reccomend that you get a copy of Richard P. DE Kerbrech's book "Down amonst the Black Gang."
I am trying to find some answers to your question, but all I can see so far is that the exhaust turbine that drove the triple screws in the Olympic class liners was first trialed in White Star's Laurentic in 1909.
I don't know who manufactured the extraction and feed pumps but the Turbine itself was manufactured by Parsons.
I'll keep looking.
Best of Luck,
Bill

 

[William Oakes]

Cam,
from the Haynes, RMS Titanic (1909-1912) Olympic class Owner's workshop manual. P.103
"From the hotwells, the feedwater was extracted by two pairs of Weir's hotwell pumps"
Looks like a company named Weir's made the pumps.
Hope this helps.
Bill

 

[Seumas]

Weir's of Cathcart, East Renfrewshire, Scotland.

 

[William Oakes]

Cam,
Good reading here...

Titanic’s Propulsion Plant

Cheers,
Bill

 

[Cam Houseman]

Cam,
I would reccomend that you get a copy of Richard P. DE Kerbrech's book "Down amonst the Black Gang."
I am trying to find some answers to your question, but all I can see so far is that the exhaust turbine that drove the triple screws in the Olympic class liners was first trialed in White Star's Laurentic in 1909.
I don't know who manufactured the extraction and feed pumps but the Turbine itself was manufactured by Parsons.
I'll keep looking.
Best of Luck,
Bill

Thank you! I've also been looking for Railton's, they apparently drew some plans for the Main Feed Filters.

Weir's of Cathcart, East Renfrewshire, Scotland.

Cam,
Good reading here...

Titanic’s Propulsion Plant

Cheers,
Bill

Thank you Again!

 

[Samuel Halpern]

Could someone mark this up, please?

Those are the two circulating pumps for the starboard-side main condenser. There were two on the port side for the port-side main condenser. The auxiliary condenser, located in the main engine room, had but one auxiliary circulating pump that was located right near it.

 

[Tim Aldrich]

Mr. Houseman, this photo of Oceanic (No. 317) might help you wrap your brain around how circulating pumps are installed. The condensers (the barrel shaped objects) are above the pumps. The people in the photo give a sense of scale and I'm sure Titanic's circulating pumps would have been much bigger.

Oceanic during fitting out.

 

[Steven Christian]

Hi y'all,

I'm wondering the specific components of the Circulating Pumps from the Turbine Room.

I searched through and found a post from a Mr. James Hefner on July 3rd, 2004:

"Four centrifugal pumps were used as circulating water pumps for the two condensers. (These circulated cooling water through the tubes of the condensers.) The two main circulating pumps were powered by two cylinder compound engines; the two auxiliary circulating pumps by single cylinder engines. Each pump had suction and discharge pipes of 20 in. bore. All four had suction pipes that were open to the sea outside the hull, but all four also had suctions down in the bilge (bottom) of the hull. Two could pump water from the reciprocating engine rooms, and two from the turbine room. I don't know who the builder was; I have seen in other ships were the shipyard itself built the circulating water pumps."

I don't know whether he meant these pumps (below, from the 1911 Shipbuilder Special Numbers issue)
View attachment 77978

Could someone mark this up, please?

The Circulating Pumps are still together, and they separated from the Stern, with the outside hull still attached.
(History Channel 2012, "Titanic at 100: Mystery Solved", RMST Inc/WHOI, 2010)
View attachment 77979

Thanks, I really appreciate any help!


-Cam.

I think they answered your question about the pumps. Nothing I can add but good to see your interest in the machines. Cheers.

 

[Seumas]

This is where the Titanic's circulating pumps were made:

The foundry and factory buildings seen above were replaced by art deco factory structures in the mid thirties, which are still standing, indeed some of my Mum's family ended up working there !

This website has a lot of good information about Weir's and of their historic products and advertising.

G. and J. Weir - Graces Guide

www.gracesguide.co.uk

 

[Cam Houseman]

Mr. Houseman, this photo of Oceanic (No. 317) might help you wrap your brain around how circulating pumps are installed. The condensers (the barrel shaped objects) are above the pumps. The people in the photo give a sense of scale and I'm sure Titanic's circulating pumps would have been much bigger.

Oceanic during fitting out.

Thanks! Interesting how many photos they took of Oceanic, they must've felt so proud of her.

This is where the Titanic's circulating pumps were made:

View attachment 77984
The foundry and factory buildings seen above were replaced by art deco factory structures in the mid thirties, which are still standing, indeed some of my Mum's family ended up working there !

This website has a lot of good information about Weir's and of their historic products and advertising.

G. and J. Weir - Graces Guide

www.gracesguide.co.uk

That's truly fascinating Seumas-Its really interesting that H&W had contact with Glasgow, even though they were "rivals". They must've been mutually working together, didn't Mr. Ismay write to Cunard for some working designs of their windows?

Glasgow University even has the Pigott Spec book.

 

[Seumas]

Thanks! Interesting how many photos they took of Oceanic, they must've felt so proud of her.


That's truly fascinating Seumas-Its really interesting that H&W had contact with Glasgow, even though they were "rivals". They must've been mutually working together, didn't Mr. Ismay write to Cunard for some working designs of their windows?

Glasgow University even has the Pigott Spec book.

I think you're referring to the involvement of John Brown and Co. of Clydebank (not a part of Glasgow, the "Bankies" are a town in their own right) with the turbines for the Olympic class ?

Now and again, there probably were mutual exchanges of ideas and information between ostensibly competing companies. After all, it was in their interests for British shipbuilding to stay on top, especially ahead of Germany's increasingly impressive shipbuilding.

John Brown's were arguably the world top authority for marine turbines at the time. So you would want their advice. Who knows, perhaps Brown and Co. (who had the Aquitania on the stocks at the time) got some information they needed from H&W in return for their help ?

Pirrie and Carlisle very likely knew a lot of their rival shipbuilders who owned the big yards on Clydeside (Scotland) and Tyneside (England) on a social level from the various engineering institutes and London gentlemen's clubs they were members of.

Weir's of Cathcart and their then state-of-the-art pumping systems weren't the only East Renfrewshire connection with the Titanic, either. Many of the ship's sinks and lavatories (well, someone had to make em' !) were made in the town of Barrhead by the firm of Shanks & Co.

IIRC they had to get the lifeboat davits shipped all the way from the Wellin's foundry in Sweden. However, I could be wrong about that.

 

[Cam Houseman]

I think you're referring to the involvement of John Brown and Co. of Clydebank (not a part of Glasgow, the "Bankies" are a town in their own right) with the turbines for the Olympic class ?

Now and again, there probably were mutual exchanges of ideas and information between ostensibly competing companies. After all, it was in their interests for British shipbuilding to stay on top, especially ahead of Germany's increasingly impressive shipbuilding.

John Brown's were arguably the world top authority for marine turbines at the time. So you would want their advice. Who knows, perhaps Brown and Co. (who had the Aquitania on the stocks at the time) got some information they needed from H&W in return for their help ?

Pirrie and Carlisle very likely knew a lot of their rival shipbuilders who owned the big yards on Clydeside (Scotland) and Tyneside (England) on a social level from the various engineering institutes and London gentlemen's clubs they were members of.

Weir's of Cathcart and their then state-of-the-art pumping systems weren't the only East Renfrewshire connection with the Titanic, either. Many of the ship's sinks and lavatories (well, someone had to make em' !) were made in the town of Barrhead by the firm of Shanks & Co.

IIRC they had to get the lifeboat davits shipped all the way from the Wellin's foundry in Sweden. However, I could be wrong about that.

Ys, exactly! I went through the British National Archives and found that they (Campbell and Weir) produced many of the machinery in the Engine and Turbine Rooms, such as a "66'' Inch Direct Contact Feed Heater", but as far as I can tell, the University of Glasgow doesn't hold it, and the current company doesn't offer archive services, so I'm not sure where to look.

And thanks for all the fascinating history behind the manufacturers!

 

[Samuel Halpern]

According to the Shipbuilder Special Issue 1911, the circulating pumps for the condensers were made by H&W themselves.

 

[Stephen Carey]

They were built by I Weirs and were a larger - much larger - version of the auxiliary seawater pumps.
The compound engines drove through a crankshaft to turn the centrifugal pumps which drew from the seawater chests and discharged to the condenser and thence overboard. They were, by my back of a f~~ packet calculations, some 3,300m3/hr delivery each.
Starting them you can read about from this article - https://www.ssrichardmontgomery.com/download/Starting-RMS-Titanic-Rev-21.pdf which I am currently updating with pictures of the pumps.
The overboard from these pumps is the large amount of water that can be seen issuing from around the waterline on any steamship.