Two men under the lifeboat seats Yates

Not open for further replies.
In Fargo Forum, ND, U.S.A. there was an interwiew with survivor Mrs H.F. Chaffee April 23 1912:
"The boat I was in was overmanned. Two men were discovered smoking cigarettes under the seats, and the sailors and stewards were not able to row."
Anybody know who those two men could have been? Could one of them been Jay Yates, the famous gambler?
Whoever they were, and assuming the story isn't just a fanciful concoction, it most certainly wasn't Jay Yates. Jay Yates was never aboard the ship, but since he was on the lam from the authorities at the time, he did what he could to make some people believe that he was.
The two stowaways in Lifeboat 5 had been identified by Mr. Stengel to be East Asian, perhaps Chinese or Fillipino. There was eight men from Hong Kong who boarded at Southampton. Six of these were Lee Bing, Chang Chip, Choong Foo, Ling Hee, Ali Lam and Fang Lang. These could or could not be some of the two passengers. I do know one of these was later picked up by Lifeboat 14.
Hope this helps,
Shane N. Worthy
All Ahead Full!

What stowaways in lifeboat 5?
Mr Stengel was in lifeboat 1.
Arne's posts refers to Mrs Chaffee, who I understand may have been in boat 4 [?].
Mrs. Stengel was in lifeboat 5, Mr. Stengel was in 1. This can be found in Dr. Jay Henry Mowbray (ed.), "Sinking of the Titanic — Eyewitness Accounts" (1912)
Perhaps his wife told him this.
For Mrs. Chaffee, it could have been any boat, as in she does not recall which one she was in. Some claim she was in No. 4.
If this is the case, there was one stowaway whom was identified as French.
All Ahead Full!
Shane N. Worthy
I would be very cautious with regard to most of the accounts in Mowbray.
Strange Mrs Stengel remembers stowaways, but not being landed on and injured.

You have an account by Mrs. Chaffee, which mentions a French stowaway in her lifeboat? - May I please have a copy or reference to that account?
Hello everybody. As far as I know, there was no 'stowaway' in boat No. 4.
Mrs. Chaffee may have been in boat 9 or 11, since she mentions stewards and sailors being in the boat with her - there were no stewards in No 4 to begin with. There were two 'Germans' mentioned being in that boat and a stewardess said they were hiding under the seats. There were no stowaways in boat No 9 as far as I know, so Mrs Chaffee may have been in No. 11. Just a theory.

Best regards,

Hello Peter,

You say: "There were two 'Germans' mentioned being in that boat and a stewardess said they were hiding under the seats." - Which boat?

Ben Holme

Hi Peter, Lester and all,

Just a point regarding Mrs. Chaffee's lifeboat. A brief account of her resuce was described in a Minnesota newspaper in the days follwing the disaster. In the article, Mrs. Chaffee makes reference to the glass enclosed promenade deck, and the difficulty she had in stepping through the window. It would appear thus, that she escaped in boat #4.

Hope this helps.

Best wishes,
Hello, Ben. Nice to see that you're around! It has been suggested that Mrs. Chaffee escaped in No. 4, but why then does she make reference to stewards and sailors and the boat being overmanned? No. 4 wasn't completely full even after transfers were made....
On the other hand, if she mentions the glass enclosed promenade deck, it would certainly hint at her being in No. 4 after all. Hm.

Best regards,

Hello Ben, Peter,

Is this one and the same account we are talking about? - Would it be possible to obtain a copy?

Ben, I hope your University year is going well and that you are close to completing your course. Lots of luck.

With my very best wishes,
>>but why then does she make reference to stewards and sailors and the boat being overmanned?<<

Well, it depends on what she meant by "overmanned." Was she referring to the total number of people in the boat or the number of crew in the boat? After all, the crew was sent along for the purpose of commanding and steering the boat, no? When we say "manned," we refer to the condition of something or someplace being equipped with an adequate amount of trained and knowledgeable personnel to conduct the maintenance and operations of said thing or place. First, how many crew were aboard LB #4, before and after transfer? This might clarify as to what Chafee meant when she said "overmanned."
Just as I thought--an excess of crew! If the allotment of LB #4 ascribed to ET is correct and complete, there were six crewmen on board LB #4: QM Walter Perkis, Able Seamen William Lyons (who later died) and William McCarthy, Greaser Thomas Ranger, Light Trimmer Samuel Hemming, and Bedroom Steward Andrew Cunningham. It also shows Mrs. Chaffee, but I presume that this is obviously in question anyway.

What was the standard crew assigned to a lifeboat the size of LB #4? I'm not sure, but it probably wasn't 6 people, especially considering that many of the T's lifeboats went away with only two or three crew members.

As for the number of crew after the transfer (presuming that the above list was the allotment at launch, save for the steward and Hemming, whom Lightoller would never have let go, as they weren't essential to boat operations), I will check in a minute...
Not open for further replies.