Unidentified bodies (male)

[Wendy Joy Wyeth]

Were all unidentified bodies buried in the USA, if not is there a list.
Does anybody have any information regarding Fireman James Robert Wyeth from Northam Southampton.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

The list you're looking for is at https://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/victims/graves_disposition.shtml

A number of unidentified bodies were buried at sea, and had to be because of the advanced state of decoposition, and also because the sheer number of bodies recovered was far more then could be put on ice and/or embalmed. To my knowladge, those that were taken to Halifax were buried there.

Of those that were identified, some were buried in Halifax, others were taken back to their home nation.

Hope this helps.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart

Cordially,

 

[Wendy Joy Wyeth]

Micheal

As I'm new to this research lark and a technophobe
I appreciate any help I can get. My husband's great uncle was a fireman on board and I have recently started researching his life. His name was James Robert Wyeth from Northam Southampton.
There are conflicting stories regarding the disposal of his body.
We hope to find out more so that we can hopefully
pay our respects.

Thanks for your help

Wendy

 

[Michael H. Standart]

G'Day Wendy, and I wish you the best of luck in your search. I checked the crew bio for Mr. Wyeth and didn't find much beyond the notation that the man died in the sinking. Information on some crew and even some passangers can be very difficult to come by. If you know what side of your family he came from, you might want to consider asking around there for information. Professional researchers do that, often because there is surprisingly little in the public record. You may also want to consider checking things like census records or contemporary newspaper accounts like the obituaries.

Good luck.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart

 

[Wendy Joy Wyeth]

Michael,

Sadly there are not many members of the Wyeth family left. We have obtained a copy of his birth certificate and he is named on a memorial in southampton, sadly this is now stored away. I did recently get the opportunity to view it by appointment. According to a book written by Brian Tycehurst he had a grave in the old cemetary graveyard, southampton common. After some research it was discovered that his name was added to the family plot. We have recently been given the plot number and intend to visit. I will
continue to search until I have all the information. Thanks for your help

Wendy

 

[Cal Haines]

Hi Wendy,

There was a Fireman James Wyeth who perished aboard Titanic. Most of what is known about him comes from the PARTICULARS OF ENGAGEMENT sheet that he signed when he came aboard. I lists him as "J. Wyeth", age 25, of 40 Milbank St. He had previously served aboard Titanic's sister ship Olympic. He signed aboard on April 6th, among the first group of fireman to sign on for the maiden voyage. Hopefully someone else knows when Olympic arrived in Southampton. Quite a few records from Olympic survive, so it may be possible to back-track his career prior to Titanic.

In all, 1522 men, women and children died aboard Titanic of which only 338 were recovered, mostly by the cable ship MacKay-Bennett. 119 bodies were buried at sea, 150 bodies were buried at Halifax and 59 bodies were buried elsewhere. The bodies of nine fireman were identified and buried at Halifax. The bodies of four men identified only as "Fireman" and ten identified as "Probably Fireman" are also buried at Halifax.

A Micheal has already said, there are several pages here that relate to the recovery and disposition of the bodies:

List of Recovered Bodies
Fireman Wyeth's name is not listed, so if his body was recovered it was not identified.

Record of Unidentified Bodies
I always find this one very sad. Some of the bodies had documents on them or unique tattoos that would seem to be sufficient to identify them, yet most were not. Some of the bodies on the list have been identified and in some cases there are some guesses as to their identity.

Diary of Frederick Hamilton (Cable Engineer: MacKay Bennett)

Here are some other links that you may find interesting:

An Analysis of the Bodies Recovered from the Titanic, by Bill Wormstedt

Halifax, City of Sorrow, (by Johan Totterstrom)

Titanic Victims Buried in Halifax: The Bob Knuckle List

Garth Wangemann's Titanic Graves Website

THE FUNERAL SHIP AND ITS DEAD (Mowbray, 1912)

article by Karen Campbell

What does your family know about Wyeth? Do you have any photographs?

Warm Regards,

Cal

 

[Lester Mitcham]

Hi Cal,

You say: "In all, 1522 men, women and children died aboard Titanic ...." My informations indicate that only 1496 (1497 if Frederick Miles was onboard) passengers and crew died.

I also refer you to postings under: WHat the EXACT number that died?

Lester

 

[Cal Haines]

Lester,

The number comes from Bill Wormstedt's page (loc cit). I doubt we will ever know for sure.

Cal

 

[Lester Mitcham]

Hi Cal,

Oh the Senate Table. I note Bill says it has a known error with regard to the Number of Crew. There are other errors in the Crew figures. It is also wrong with regard to the Passengers. As an example only 5 First Class Women and Chidren were lost. The Senate Table says 11.

I hope this helps,
Lester

 

[Bill Wormstedt]

For my web-page, I'm using the figures as given by the US Senate Report. For the purposes of my article, that made the most sense, as I needed to balance the totals of various passenger classes.

However, it appears that 1496 is probably a far more accurate number of those who died.

 

[Phillip Gowan]

Bill, Cal, et al,
The figures of 2228 passengers/crew and 705 survivors are so ingrained in the Titanic community that I'm sure they'll remain with us always. Am not sure where "those people" came up with 2228 unless they were counting some cross channel passengers in that figure. But after maintaining a running spreadsheet of all the passengers and crew members for some years, I've been on line 2208 of the spreadsheet for quite some time with no additions or removals from it. Of course there's always the chance that a few people might not be accounted for but if there were such persons, they'll probably remain anonymous forevermore.

The survivor number is different and I think the figure 712 will stand the test of time. I can enumerate that figure and independently Brian Meister, Peter Engberg-Klarstrom, and Gunther Babler have also come up with 712.

There is a certain "I have spoken" mentality among some in the Titanic community and those will probably continue to put forth "the old numbers" or suddenly have an epiphany of their own that tells them the figures of 2208 and 712 are more accurate--and then inform the rest of us. But that's what gives us a certain pleasure and wry smile. Sort of like the old "Clyde Crashcup" cartoon series where Clyde was supposedly the genius and his assistant Leonardo was the inauspicious sidekick. Whenever faced with a particular dilemma, Leonardo would whisper the answer in Clyde Crashcup's ear. And then Clyde would say--"oh yes of course, glad "I" thought of it.

My best,
Phil

 

[Lester Mitcham]

Hi Bill,

Thank you for that. Good to hear that you agree that 1496 is a more likely and acceptable figure. That is the figure I used for my Statistical count. The only change that I know of is that with Mathilde Lefebre being 12 instead of 11 she now becomes an adult female rather than a child; which will also change my adult/child casuality figures. Naturally if I decide to count 12 and 13 years as children; or if it can be proved that Frederick Miles was onboard my statistics will change.

Lester

 

[Lester Mitcham]

Hi Phil,

Interesting comments and observations about the Senate figures. I came to Titanic via Walter Lord's ANTR. He used figures close to the British Inquiry figures so when years later I first saw the Senate figures I rejected them. Strangely 1st Class seems to be too high by 5; the number of postal workers. Although specified as being Crew; the Band has been included in both Crew and 2nd Class figures. There are also 4 American Line employees listed among the Crew but with the notation that they were 3rd Class Passengers. They are named in both Lists and included within both sets of figures. Because of such errors I do not consider it likely that cross-channel passengers were included in the 2228.

Also the internal numbers of Lost and Saved tells us that the Senate figures are also unreliable on that score. I again cite the case of 1st Class W&C. We know that only 5 were Lost; but the Senate Report says 11.

Lester

 

[Bill Wormstedt]

I must admit that 'my' acceptance of 1496 as the true number of victims is purely based on what I've been reading here - I sure didn't come up with it! My use of the Senate figures was purely what was easily available. The British Inquiry did not give the breakdowns as detailed as the Senate did.

However, this all does bring up an idea - re-doing my 'analysis of bodies' with more accurate figures. It can be done (I'd need some help in getting the class breakdowns), but I truly do not think it's going to tell us anything substantially different from the totals I've already come up with. I expect we'll still see the Able bodied seaman and 1st Class coming in with a high precentage of bodies recovered. And still see 3rd Class coming in low.

 

[Lester Mitcham]

Hi Bill,

As I type this I have the British figures in front of me and they list Saved out of; with a percentage figure. They even break the passenger figures down into Adult males, Adult females; Male children and Female children; which to me is far more detailed than the Senate figures. I do not agree with the British figures but they do have them. I refer you to Senate Document No 933; 62D Congress; 2D Session; presented by Mr Smith of Michigan August 20, 1912; Washington 1912.

If they are of any interest/use to you my figures are on this site. I have just looked at 1st Class; I have 123 lost, which with 39 bodies gives a 31.7% bodies found of perished. Your figure is 30% based on 130 perished. Based on my figures your % Accounted For would be 74%; while % Saved = 62% 201 out of 324 rather than 199 out of 329.

Note that Hermann has Olga Lundin as 2nd Class and includes Frederick Miles. I have retained Olga as 3rd Class and not included Miles in my count except as a Special Note. We both count Nourney as 1st Class.

I have not broken the Crew figures down; but this could be done using with his permisson Hermann's Crew List.

Hope this helps,
Regards,
Lester