Unsinkable


Dave Hudson

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Apr 15, 2011
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How much was the "unsinkable" title exploited?
I know about the referance in the Shipbuilder, but beyond that, I have not read one single pre-sinking sentence that labeled her unsinkable. How many passengers on board thought that? .
Thanks,
David.
 
J

jean leysman

Guest
Hi David,
First of all: all ships built at that time were labelled unsinkable, because shipbuilders were so convinced of their technology being anvanced to the utmost that ships just couldn't sink under normal circumstances. Normal circumstances being however: damage in just one or two watertight compartments. Nobody could (or would) imagine a situation in wich extensive damage (like Titanic suffered) would be inflicted on a ship.
Nobody cared to think about possibly exploding engines, icebergs striking the the full length of the ship or a huge fire on board. Situations which would irrevokably cause a ship to founder.
By the way, even after the Titanic tragedy the White Star Line claimed it's ships to be unsinkable, though they didn't use that same word anymore. After Titanic the Olympic was almost totally reconstructed with a double hull, higher bulkheads and sufficient lifeboats. It was presented to the public as the ship with the ultimate safety level.

Regards
Leysman
 

Dave Gittins

Member
Apr 11, 2001
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The “unsinkable”￾ label has been greatly exaggerated. The British historian, Richard Howell, traces it to three sources prior to the sinking. All three used expressions such as “practically unsinkable”￾ or some other qualification. The articles are in The Shipbuilder and two White Star pamphlets. The Shipbuilder was a rather expensive magazine that was seen by a small number of specialists in the shipping industry. Of the two White Star pamphlets, the most recently discovered may have been a proof that was never circulated. The other was publicity material that was seen only by those interested in travelling. It should be emphasised that Olympic was never proclaimed as “the unsinkable Olympic, though her safety features were the same as those of Titanic. In fact, all major liners were of much the same standard as the Olympicclass ships. All were generally thought of as practically unsinkable by the action of wind and water and even in collisions with other ships their survival chances were considered to be high. The claims from passengers and crew that they thought Titanic unsinkable all were made after the event. In fact, there are a few provable cases where passengers or crew felt in advance that Titanic was unsafe.

I consider that much of the “unsinkable”￾ legend was created on the morning of April 15th by Phillip Franklin. After it was known that Titanic was in trouble, Franklin several times categorically told the press that the ship was unsinkable and his words were widely quoted, particularly in the US. Franklin openly admitted to these statements at the US inquiry. I might add that the bulk of the Titanic legend was created very soon after the sinking and lingers to this day. In this legend, the ship was thought to be unsinkable, the iceberg was enormous, the damage was a 300 foot gash, the “women and children first”￾ policy was strictly enforced and the band went down playing Nearer my God to Thee.

That said, it must be admitted that there was a great deal of complacency on board during the early stages of the sinking. I believe that these arose largely from the calm night, the absence of a serious list, the oddly gentle collision, the lack of a general alarm, reassurances from the crew, the well meaning efforts of the band and the sheer size and stability of the ship. Add to that the lack of communication among the officers. Thomas Andrews had told Captain Smith that Titanic would certainly sink, yet Lightoller and others thought she would be saved by her bulkheads.

A prodigious amount of hype surrounds Titanic and my considered opinion is that the idea that she was widely thought to be unsinkable before the disaster is part of it. I have before me two accounts of her departure from Southampton from The New York Herald and The Times. The London paper devoted a few column inches to details of how she differed from |I{Olympic}. The American paper was more detailed and mentioned that Titanic was about to be surpassed in size and luxury by Imperator. Neither paper mentions her safety features.

David H, we seem to be on the same wavelength, with the hype detectors functioning.
 
Nov 22, 2000
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Dave,

White Star Line actually inserted an advertisement in a contemporary British newspaper which said that the Titanic was unsinkable. The name of the paper escapes me but a friend owns an original and I can easily find out for you.
I didn't think it had ever been advertised that way until I saw it for myself
 
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Jason Smith

Guest
You're right. There's been so much fluff about the Titanic AFTER she sank, it's hard to know what to believe... Especially that silly moo who claimed to of been a passenger who went down on the Titanic in a previous life. Isn't it a convenient coincidence that she only discovered her past life just after James Cameron's 'Titanic' was released in cinemas world wide... Sigh!
 

Dave Hudson

Member
Apr 15, 2011
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Jason,

I believe that that statement is a rather touchy subject. I would not advise bringing it up. That "silly moo" is a nice and well respected member of this board. If I were you, I would formally withdraw that post. The Encyclopedia Titanica society should be a place for all enthusiasts to share knowledge. Sure, we get off topic sometimes and have fun, but not at the expense of others.

David
 

Kate Bortner

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May 17, 2001
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David, you are wise beyond your years. I agree, nicely put. But Jason, I'm assuming you just spoke without thinking and we've all done that too, so keep posting, but play nice, please.
-kate.
 
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Jason Smith

Guest
I have no idea what the name of this person is, I can't remember. I've also heard at least two separate people who have claimed to of had previous lives that ended on the Titanic. One in America and one in the U.K. Maybe the person you refer to is the same one, I don't know. Which poster of this forum has claimed this then? What's her name? I may of already talked with her...

I'm sorry, but I really don't believe this kind of thing. How is it that people with these extraordinary claims are always people who participated in very important moments in history in their past lives? Half the time they're famous people in their past lives too, instead of some normal person who lead a normal life. How is it that everyone doesn't remember a past life?

There was one woman who was on BBC T.V. a few years ago. She was a retired actress (!) who claimed to have been Mary, Queen of Scots in a previous life! After being lead to a castle staircase, which the 17th century Mary had used as she went to her place of executed. This women began to run up and down the stairs shrieking and crying melodramatically in front of the T.V. cameras.

When asked why this was so, she said that she could sense the original Mary's 'tortured and tormented spirit bound within the staircase'! Huh! Despite the fact that it was then revealed that the original timber staircase had long since been destroyed in a fire, hundreds of years ago. The current one being a modern reproduction... Doh! It all seems a bit farfetched to me after that really...
 
Dec 2, 2000
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Easley South Carolina
G'Day Jason, I'm as skeptical as they come when it comes to claims of the paranormal and supernatural. The obvious frauds notwithstanding, (and I don't mind seeing them nuked!) they are impossible to support or refute by the evidence.

The sticking point in regards to your earlier post is referring to somebody who is a genuine beleiver in the phenomemnon as a "silly moo." That's getting rather personal. We really have no way of knowing the source of what she believes are memories from a previous life and I'm very reluctant to make snap judgements on something like that until I know what all the facts are.

I'm not without a few non-scientific beliefs myself. Being Catholic, you can see the Niceaen Creed and the Apostles creed to sum my religious veiws up. Can I prove any of them by the evidence?

Nope. Not a chance. I don't even try.

Science fiction author Robert A, Heinlien once wrote "One man's religion is another man's belly laugh." He knew what he was talking about

I'm sure that there are some Protestants out there who would find my beleifs decidedly odd, and no doubt there are people from non-Judeao/Christain religions who find Catholics and Protestants equally strange, to say nothing of atheiests attitudes towards any religion. Agnostics just shrug and say "I don't know."

In matters of faith, we can speculate, offer theology, and guess, but can we really say we know?

The stakes are the prospect of eternal life and people understandably react very badly when that appears to be threatened. In such matters, one is very wise to tread lightly.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 

Dave Hudson

Member
Apr 15, 2011
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Very nice post, Michael, and I agree with your philosophy. I must say, however, that in the interest of peace, we should stop talking about such delicate subjects.

Jason,
Her name? I don't know if I should. If she wants to let you know, she can post a message. I don't mean to keep it secret from you, but I also don't want to offend anyone or invade their privacy. Suffice to say that she is a very nice person whose contributions to this board could not be more appriciated.
As I said before, you really should keep your opinions to yourself on this board. You don't want to incur the wrath of the almighty creator (His Imperial Excellency Phil). If I were you, I would apologize and politly take back what you said.
Seriously.
happy.gif


David
 

Sam Brannigan

Member
Feb 24, 2007
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Jason

When the person in question introduced herself to the board she was roundly ridiculed for her viewpoint by many people, including myself.

Personally, I regret the jibes I posted.....a case of me trying to be the smart alec as usual. I still feel very skeptical about this persons beliefs, but that is not a reflection on her as a person, and I wish, in retrospect that I had gone about heading this person in the right direction on the board in as eloquent a manner as Michael Standart, among others.

Since this person has got the hang of the historical, factual nature of the board I have found her to be an extremely lively, inquisitive and interesting person.

If I remember rightly, when being mocked about her belief and asked a certain incisive question she came up with an answer which brought new light to me: namely that a director from the Holland-America line was a complementary passenger on board the Titanic. While not suggesting her belief recovered this information, in the context of what this board is about she provided an interesting and invaluable link for me which led to further questions about the IMM and the co operation of lines within it.

Forgive the pun, but that is the tip of the iceberg. She has recently initiated a very interesting thread which is ongoing and I find her posts to be very courteous, interesting and often humorous.

Most importantly, this person has a deep interest and affection for the Titanic. She has lasted the course very well (not many of the 1300+ members post here regularly) and even if it was Camerons film which fired an interest in her (and how many other countless millions?) then good for her.

No one has a monopoly on belief, ideas, opinion or thought and everyone deserves a fair go of things.

You can go on all day about Mary, Queen of Scots and past lives, but Jason, I'm afraid we've ALL moved on here and along with David I feel you should retract your insult.

Respectfully

Sam
 
Apr 7, 2001
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Hello Jason ~

Nice to meet your acquaintance. Let me introduce myself. My name is Teri Milch, referred to here in this thread by yourself as, "silly moo." I am an avid Titanic enthusiast who posts here regularly with great enthusiasm. I am sorry if I have upset you by my beliefs. You are not the first, nor will you be the last. I have come a long way since the creation of my website, and have learned much of dealing with non-supporters of reincarnation. My special friends here on ET have assisted me greatly in learning to accept people with such differed opinions and beliefs. We have come a long way and I am very grateful they have accepted me into this Board. Phil is phenomenal as well. He already knows this, I've told him a thousand times. In fact he's probably sick of hearing me say it!

Have you been posting here long? I took a look at your profile but did not find much information on you other than it looks like you originate from the UK by your email address. I found your posts of me on this thread to be interesting. Have you read my site? Do you know much about me? That would be a question that would have an entertaining answer from you. I look forward to hearing from you.

My Dear Friends Sam Brannigan, David Hudson, Paul Rogers, Kate Bortner and Michael Standart ~ It appears that Mr. Jason Smith does not wish to retract his words spoken about me nor withdraw his post. I am not sure why, and this has piqued my curiosity on the matter. His profile reveals no further information about himself. Have you found him to post in any other threads I am not aware of? Is this guy new or what?

Interestingly you guys have taught me well not to take offense too quickly. I am not even offended by Jason's disrespectful remarks, I have learned well, thanks to you. Thank you friends for your kind words in support of my membership here on ET. Sam, you really slammed the guy!! Wow, I was impressed. Ah, you make me feel so adored. Okay let's not get too mushy here!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Friends,

Love Teri
 

Ben Holme

Member
Feb 11, 2001
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FWIW, I believe we should encourage members to express their honest opinions (within reason!). It is a fine line, however, between merely showing indifference to an opinion and bluntly dismissing another member's beliefs through personal invective.

Just my 2p worth...

Ben
 
Apr 7, 2001
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Ben,

Your 2p worth has been noted well. And I agree with you that we should express our opinions within reason.

There's always personal email if one gets into trouble with another member. J

Teri
 
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wendi parker

Guest
Teri,

I would love to hear more about it!
I am trying to finish a book about reincarnation of a girl who had been on the Titanic. I started it but left it hanging... this site has helped a lot about the information regarding the sinking but I havent put much work into it for a while.
I would love to hear what you have to say about it!
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thank you,

Wendi
happy.gif
 
Apr 7, 2001
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Michael,

Not to worry, OM! I have this one under full control!

I don't think we have anything to worry about here though, because our friend Jason hasn't written back to us. Ships ahoy, Jason.

Wendi,

Sure Wendi! We'll have to discuss this topic off the Board, because the Captain of this ship will rip my head off if I start a thread on this topic!!! I'm assuming we all know who the Captain of this here ship is...

Please email me privately at [email protected], I look forward to conversing with you.

Sincerely,

Teri
 
Dec 8, 2000
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There seem to be a number of misunderstandings here: is Monica O'Hara-Keeton a member of this board? I wish she were, as there are a couple of things I'd be interested in discussing with her.

Criticism of her published work is fair game as is true for any other published work, but no reason for recourse to gender based vilification. It's also important to remember that Ms O'Hara-Keeton has not made claims as to the absolute truth of the remembered life. As per her disclaimer at the start of 'I Died on the Titanic':

"Is the story fact, fiction, or some sort
of esoteric mix of the two?

THAT is up to the reader to decide..."

Indeed. (And probably just as well, given the information in the 1911 Irish census records as published in Senan Molony's 'The Irish Aboard Titanic'.)

Yours bemusedly,

Fiona

(Back 'on topic'-ish: Hello Geoff, if you're still hunting it down, please count me in as another person interested in verifying the use of 'unsinkable' in a WSL ad. Very interesting stuff indeed.)
 

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