Upper class male societal expectations

[LLWH]

Hopefully this isn't redundant, I looked and didn't find anything. I'm writing a historical fiction novel, and wanted to get a better handle on the societal expectations placed on upper class young men, in their early to mid twenties. I know women were expected to marry, and that men were more inclined to have higher educations and professions, but I also get a sense that having a profession was considered "beneath them." What would be expected of a young man born into money? For instance, if he wanted to study medicine, or architecture, or engineering, would that be shocking, at least as far as his parents were concerned?

And while I know that women sometimes (often?) found themselves marrying men whom they had no interest in, but had to for other reasons (money, status, etc.) did this ever happen the other way around? Were men ever pushed at women like this? If so, what might the reasons be for it?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Arun Vajpey]

All those things varied from one part of the world to another or more specifically, one culture to another. Also, the period in which the novel is set. Perhaps if you specify the era ('historical' covers a vast timeframe), region, country etc it might be easier to answer.

 

[Roger Southern]

Hello LLWH,

Whilst I can't comment generally there certainly didn't seem to be pressure to avoid entering professions in the upper classes. The Hon. C S Rolls springs to mind- he studied mechanical engineering at Oxford and although he didn't practice as an engineer as such, that lead to his meeting with Henry Royce. Also many second (and first) sons went into the legal profession at that time and banking.

Just a few thoughts and I can't comment on your second question!

 

[Thomas Krom]

Hello Miss,



Long time no seen, how have you been?

Hopefully this isn't redundant, I looked and didn't find anything.

Don’t worry about it, we are here to help after all.

I'm writing a historical fiction novel, and wanted to get a better handle on the societal expectations placed on upper class young men, in their early to mid twenties. I know women were expected to marry, and that men were more inclined to have higher educations and professions, but I also get a sense that having a profession was considered "beneath them." What would be expected of a young man born into money? For instance, if he wanted to study medicine, or architecture, or engineering, would that be shocking, at least as far as his parents were concerned?

And while I know that women sometimes (often?) found themselves marrying men whom they had no interest in, but had to for other reasons (money, status, etc.) did this ever happen the other way around? Were men ever pushed at women like this? If so, what might the reasons be for it?

There are many colourful examples on Titanic’s first class passenger list of different occupations, statuses and more. I would gladly compel a list of all occupations that one could find on Titanic’s first class passengers for you in as much detail as possible since there were some people who broke the standard in their families, as well as some nice examples of people coming from high society in different countries. This will take a little bit of time however.

I hope that will help when I am finished with it.


Kind regards,

Thomas

 

[Arun Vajpey]

For instance, if he wanted to study medicine, or architecture, or engineering, would that be shocking, at least as far as his parents were concerned?

I think in Edwardian Britain, young men born into "upper crust" families wanting to study things like medicine, architecture etc was not only acceptable, it was starting to be expected. I might be wrong, but in America I believe it was still the norm that the son would follow the father's footsteps, especially if the latter was a successful businessman. I am not sure the family would have been thrilled if Harry Widener or Jack Thayer wanted to do medicine.

 

[Jason D. Tiller]

For instance, if he wanted to study medicine, or architecture, or engineering, would that be shocking, at least as far as his parents were concerned?

My grandfather was born into upper class in 1909 and by the time he was 18 which was 1927, he had entered medical school. Although he wanted to be a geologist but was forced into the profession by his father, who was a businessman. He went onto become the best medical doctor in all of Canada, during his time. Sometimes it was acceptable and expected of the son to follow in his father's footsteps while other times, not so much.

 

[Seumas]

In the UK of 1912 - law, banking, the civil service*, the Royal Navy, the British Army and the Church of England** were the traditional professions for the sons of the upper class. Of course, a few would be so ridiculously wealthy that they'd never have to work.

A medium to long term ambition might also be to get into Parliament.

The Industrial Revolution had of course created many new wealthy families who had originally come from humble stock, and some of them were now wealthier than ancient titled aristocratic families. Many men had made eye watering fortunes in coal mining, textiles, ship building, railway engineering and newspapers and their sons would be expected to take over one day.

*Careers in the Foreign Office and the India Office were highly sought after by sons of the elite. No matter how rich your father was, you still had to pass a notoriously difficult examination that covered a wide variety of subjects to get one of the handful of junior vacancies that came up every year.

**The joke used to be that rather dim lads from rich families were usually marked down for a career in the church.

 

[LLWH]

All those things varied from one part of the world to another or more specifically, one culture to another. Also, the period in which the novel is set. Perhaps if you specify the era ('historical' covers a vast timeframe), region, country etc it might be easier to answer.

Sorry for the ambiguity! As it's a Titanic site, I didn't think to clarify. The novel takes place largely on the Titanic, so the man in question would be just finishing whatever education he needed for his "forbidden" profession shortly before the Titanic sets sail. He's American, wealthy, upper class. At this point, I'm thinking medicine, but his family owns some sort of business and he's assumed to take his father's place in it? Believable? Cliche? I don't know, I'm not familiar with this angle of the history, or with the common tropes in this area of literature.

 

[LLWH]

I think in Edwardian Britain, young men born into "upper crust" families wanting to study things like medicine, architecture etc was not only acceptable, it was starting to be expected. I might be wrong, but in America I believe it was still the norm that the son would follow the father's footsteps, especially if the latter was a successful businessman. I am not sure the family would have been thrilled if Harry Widener or Jack Thayer wanted to do medicine.

This is precisely what I'm aiming at. Thanks!

 

[LLWH]

Hello Miss,



Long time no seen, how have you been?


Don’t worry about it, we are here to help after all.

There are many colourful examples on Titanic’s first class passenger list of different occupations, statuses and more. I would gladly compel a list of all occupations that one could find on Titanic’s first class passengers for you in as much detail as possible since there were some people who broke the standard in their families, as well as some nice examples of people coming from high society in different countries. This will take a little bit of time however.

I hope that will help when I am finished with it.


Kind regards,

Thomas

Oh, gosh, you don't need to do that! I think I can fish through that info myself. Thanks for the offer, though!

 

[Arun Vajpey]

The novel takes place largely on the Titanic, so the man in question would be just finishing whatever education he needed for his "forbidden" profession shortly before the Titanic sets sail. He's American, wealthy, upper class. At this point, I'm thinking medicine, but his family owns some sort of business and he's assumed to take his father's place in it? Believable? Cliche?

I am sure that by 1912 there were many young American men who came from rich and previliged business backgrounds but preferred to enter some sort of professional occupation like Medicine or Law. So, even if there was no such young man among the First Class passengers of the Titanic per se, your plot base is certainly believable IMO and there is nothing cliched about it. As for the actual professional persuation your young man was after and what his family thought about it would depend on the plot that you have in mind.

For instance, I don't know where you want your 'hero' and his family to board the Titanic. If it is Southampton, the story could be that his time in the UK might have given him the conviction to act upon his ambition instead of blindly following hs father's footsteps into the family business.

 

[Thomas Krom]

Oh, gosh, you don't need to do that! I think I can fish through that info myself. Thanks for the offer, though!

It's nothing, I already were making a list in the past. Albeit it being unfinished, I came quite a long way with it already. It's still not 100% finished however.

 

[Brad Walton]

I am not an expert on this, but I suspect that, before WW1, the oldest son of a great British family was expected to succeed to his father's private position as director of the ancestral estate, and also to his public position as local grandee. If the younger sons were left an independent income they could become "gentlemen" (i.e. independently wealthy men without a profession). If the younger sons were not left an independent income, they would be expected to choose a profession, most traditionally a military, political, ecclesiastical or possibly a legal one. As for marriage, most if not all men were expected to marry, but within their social milieu. It was considered acceptable for an impecunious man to marry a woman wealthier than himself, providing that he was of equal social rank (and especially if he was titled). What was not acceptable, at least in England, was for people to marry either above or below their social class. Things were rather different in America, I suspect. For a general idea of how things worked in the USA, the novels of Henry James Edith Wharton are helpful, and, of course, biographies of the wealthy of the time. For Britain, I imagine that biographies of the movers and shakers of Victorian and Edwardian times would be your best bet.