US Federal Court Judge Bars RMST from cutting into Titanic

B

Bill DeSena

Guest
Hi Tracey,

I just emailed Ebay the link to the CNN news story and alerted them this might be an illegal sale.

Regards

Bill
 
T

Tracey McIntire

Guest
That's great, Bill, thanks! I hate to see people like this guy make money off Titanic.

Regards,
Tracey
 
B

Bill DeSena

Guest
Hi Again,

I also emailed the RMS Titanic copyright guy with an FYI about this auction. It pays to be active here doesn't it?

Regards
Bill
 
A

Ann M. Merriman

Guest
I am a trained nautical and terrestrial archaeologist who is opposed to disturbing the Titanic and its artifacts in any way. Proper archaeological method has never been applied to the study of this wreck and until a Phase II pre-excavation site map has been completed, the removal of any artifacts or hull fragments is unethical and does not follow proper archaeological method. I approve of any and all restrictions placed on RMS Titanic, Inc., and hope eventually they will leave this wreck alone.

I believe the importance that has been placed on artifacts and hull pieces from the Titanic represents historical associationism run amok. The archaeological importance and loss of human life associated with this site has been overlooked in favor of glamour and monetary gain derived from displaying artifacts whose only value to non-archaeologists and non-historians comes from the fact that they were found on the Titanic. This type of thinking threatens our finite archaeological resources and must be kept in check.
 
Dec 2, 2000
58,582
372
283
Easley South Carolina
Bill, good job on e-mailing Ebay and RMSTI on this. Frankly though, I have a hunch that this is a scam on the same level of the guys who try to sell people the Brooklyn Bridge. Even if it isn't, this sounds like a compelling reason to avoid buying from Ebay. They either don't check the varacity of peoples claims, or they're careless about following the law.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 
B

Bill DeSena

Guest
Here's EBAY's resonse to my inquiry. I don't think they care.

Bill

Hello,

Thank you for taking the time to contact us with this information. I
understand how this situation could be of some concern.

I have reviewed the information that you have sent in regarding An
Actual Peice of the Titanic s hull RARE!! and at this point find that
we
do not have enough evidence to show that the member has violated any
eBay rules. This item does not violate any of our policies. We
appreciate your concern in helping to keep eBay a safe and reputable
forum in which to conduct business.

Regards,

Lindy
eBay Community Watch Team
 
Dec 2, 2000
58,582
372
283
Easley South Carolina
Hi Bill, while I am no fan of RMSTI, they ARE the lawful salvors in possession. I hope they jump on this one, either to recover what may be a legitamate peice,(Which is certain to be stolen) or to squash what I sense to be an especially obnoxious peice of fraud.

From the response you received, it seems all too obvious that eBay doesn't particularly care at all. If it's real, then whoever is offering it got it illegally. If that doesn't violate their precious policy, then I have a compelling reason to avoid dealing with them.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 
B

Bill DeSena

Guest
I agree, I sent them to link above to the CNN story,...they probably ignored it the way some people ignore rockets at sea, and iceberg warnings, and lifeboat drills and...

Regards
Bill
 
T

Traci Miller

Guest
I have such mixed feelings about the salvaging. On one hand, I regard the wreck as a tomb; however, I think about future generations who could benefit from seeing the artifacts found on the ocean floor.

If the ship is, indeed, disintegrating at a rapid rate, I do believe it would be of benefit to future generations to see parts of the ship and/or the artifacts. (Look at the deterioration of the ship in the 15 years since Robert Ballard found her - not all of that is the result of visits to the ship.)

One thing is certain: I don't believe anything should be sold or used for someone to make a profit.
 
S

Shawn McQuown

Guest
Dear Titanic Enthusiasts,

With respect, I would like to offer you my response to your displeasure of seeing Titanic artifacts and offer you a different opinion.

I just returned from Las Vegas and saw the greatest exhibit I have ever seen. The "Titanic Exhibition" at the Rio Resort Hotel is absolutely incredible. It was a great experience for me and my daughter to learn about the Titanic. It was incredible to see actual parts from the Titanic herself. I was moved to tears as I tried to understand the horror of that April night so long ago. This is a perfect example of why artifact salvation is a must!! We must obtain what we can so generations in the future can understand this great ship and tragedy better so she may never be forgotten. We can't let memories rot away at the bottom of the sea.
God Bless, Shawn McQuown
Scottsdale Arizona
 
Dec 2, 2000
58,582
372
283
Easley South Carolina
Shawn, I'm glad you enjoyed the exhibition, but I have serious reservations about further salvage...in particular, some of the reasons for it, to say nothing of the methods. Cutting into the wreck for example. What the heck for? If something adds to our knowlage, that's one thing. I would be thrilled if the logbook could be recovered, but trinkets? They don't really add anything to what we know. It would have been far better if marine archaeologists had been calling the shots instead of businessmen. That way a proper record of finds in context could have been preserved, and that certainly would have added to our knowladge. That's the whole idea isn't it?

Cordially
Michael H. Standart
 
May 12, 2005
3,109
1
108
I too maintain my view that recovery of artifacts fr: Titanic is far from essential to understanding her story & that, indeed, the whole thing is a sacrilege. I had wavered for years in my attitude toward salvage operations but in finally, earlier this year, visiting a Titanic artifact exhibition (in Dallas) my mind was made up. While I myself was very much overcome w/ emotion on seeing these items, I was struck by the fun-house attitude of many of the other visitors. I kept overhearing the most mundane, insensitive comments of people who only cared to look at the pieces on display & never bothered to read the placques. It was a freak show - "Oh, that's just like in the movie," someone would say or "Look, how cool is that, man?" It was so depressing I could hardly stomach it all. I saw & read & heard the mood music piped through the place & was just sick, thinking all this has been brought up from where people had died just to be spread out in front of a bunch of morbid tourists. I felt guilty being a part of it; I thought what would those poor souls think of having their intimate possessions peeked at under glass only to be the topic of lunch-time conversation & forgotten. Since no real museum will touch such a display this travelling Titanic show is being put on in theme parks & such - hence the nil grade of intellect of most of the people attending. I mean no one seemed to care that the passengers & crew had been real people who went through this awful thing; they were only characters in a side-show to them. It was terrible. I don't think that the memory of this disaster should remain to greedy salvagers to bring up sad relics just for stupid people to tramp through makeshift galleries & point & stare at pieces of history they have no real appreciation for.
 
T

Tracey McIntire

Guest
Dear Randy,
A very accurate description of the audience reaction to the Titanic exhibit. I went to the Boston showing just after they brought in the "Big Piece." Between children running around screaming and playing and adults laughing and talking about non-Titanic related things ("wasn't the line to get in sooo long," etc.) there just wasn't any sign of respect for the artifacts or the event that brought them there. School groups were especially bad as the teachers did nothing to stop the kids from goofing around and did not provide them with any information as to WHY they should behave in a better manner. The end of the exhibit was supposed to be a memorial with all the names of the people on board listed on the wall and a book where you were supposed to write your thoughts--which I am sure started out as a good thing but ended up as a sketch pad for little kids and a place for nasty graffiti from everyone else. A few had written nice messages like "I will always remember the people of Titanic," etc. but that was definitely in the minority. I think you are right when you said that this is a "production" and will be attended by the same type of folks who go to side-shows, not the museum-types who would show some reverence. Unfortunately, as long as RMS Titanic Inc. is owned by SFX Entertainment, the whole thing will be treated like a big Hollywood production. Therein lies the tragedy.

--Tracey McIntire
 
May 12, 2005
3,109
1
108
Absolutely. As I've said, if some reputable museum - like the Metropolitan Museum of Art or the Smithsonian Institution - was responsible for displaying the artifacts, it would be a class act & the proper reverence you speak of would be ensured by the mere fact of their involvement. As it is, though cleverly calculated to resemble something of substance, the RMS Titanic, Inc tour is a farce - & a blight on the memory of the event & the people to which it pretends to pay tribute.
 
T

Tracey McIntire

Guest
Hi Michael!
Are you from Virginia? I moved to Virginia Beach a year ago and I work in Norfolk. I had attempted to contact other Titanic buffs in the area but without success. Just curious . . .

Tracey McIntire
 
Y

Yurisingleton

Guest
The Dallas Titanic Exhibit certainly dissapointed me as well. For such a steep price of admission,
30 USD/person I think, there wasn't really anything new to see. I was particularly keen on seeing the restored whistles but upon entry I discovered that its only a replica as were many other items on display. Surprisingly few actual objects from the wreck. And as for the "big piece". Well I could have went to any scrap yard and found a similar piece of junk iron. Yes, I know that 'its part of the TITANIC', but as I looked at that broken, bent piece of black iron hanging from a steel I-beam, tied up with chains, all I could think was, 'if this is all that remains of the ship I fell in love with as a child, then I would prefer to look at her as she was, captured for all eternity in black and white. With her four proud funnels, beatiful straight lines and carrying the hopes and dreams of thousands aboard her.'
On a side note, regarding the condition of this piece of the "big piece". I am a good judge of size even from 2 feet away and I'm telling you that the thickness of the outer hull on that piece was at least 7/8 of an inch or about 2.25 cm. So I'm pretty skeptical of RMST when they claim that the wreck is about to collapse down onto itself withing the next 5-10 years. As I recall, Dr. Ballard documented that in places on the hull, down near the seabed, you could actually see the red anti-fouling paint on the keel after 74 years.
Now how is 15 more years going to suddenly cause the ship to deteriorate to near structural failure? Sounds like spin doctoring to me.

Cordially,
Yuri Singleton
 
T

Tracey McIntire

Guest
Hi Yuri--
It's hard to say if RMST is exaggerating or not. It is certainly in their best interest to do so. If you check out the following link you will see the latest article on this issue--

http://www.pilotonline.com/news/nw0815tif.html

As Dr. Ballard hasn't seen the ship in many years I think it would be hard for him to make a judgement on the rate of deterioration.

--Tracey McIntire
 
Dec 2, 2000
58,582
372
283
Easley South Carolina
Hi Tracey, I grew up in Pennsylvania, and currently live in South Carolina. I was stationed in the Norfolk/Newport News area in my last year of active duty. As my ship...the aircraft carrier George Washington was being overhauled most of this time, I had plenty of opportunities to get around.

As to Titanic buffs, there are one or two of them right here. ;-), so you don't have to search far. Are you a member of the Titanic Hitorical Society by chance? I am, so is George Behe...and I suspect a number of others are as well. It's worthwhile to join even if only to get The Titanic Commutator. That publication is a goldmine of information.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 
T

Tracey McIntire

Guest
Dear Michael,
Thanks for the reply! I belong to both THS and TI--I like to have all the bases covered when it comes to Titanic information. If you are ever in the Virginia Beach/Norfolk area feel free to look me up. You can e-mail me at traceym@petamail.org. I always enjoy meeting other "Titanic people."
Sincerely,
Tracey McIntire