Mike Poirier
Member
Well that's not true.... Don't you remember the tribute to drowned cats on the QM2!
Using the elevators during the sinking
- Thread starter bradley higgins
- Start date
George L. Lorton
Member
I too think alleged is the operative word. The Entry for the log book for May 7, 1915 is fishy and doesn't match the others according to Diana Preston. It's like the old song.
One of these log entries is not like the other.
One of these log entries doesn't belong.
Can you tell which one of these entries doesn't belong before I finish this song?
George L. Lorton
Member
No they just said that because they didn't want folks to know during the sinking that they had forgotten about Dowie leaving him to his fate.
Ahh I have Kitties.
Russell Smith
Member
George L. Lorton
Member
Thanks Russell,
Happy Memories!
Happy Memories!
Jeremy Aufderheide
Member
What is Schweiger alleged to have written in his logbook?
Jim Kalafus
Member
>Don't you remember the tribute to drowned cats on the QM2
Ah yes. For those who were not aboard QM2 in her bizarre early days; the gift shoppe stocked life sized, ultra realistic, replicas of cats that had died in the line of duty protecting Merrie Olde England.
I only wish that I was joking.
My favorite was a cat which died of burn injuries, post battle, aboard some H.M.S. or other. I forget what its specific act of heroism was, but there was an attached tag that told the entire story. It was a very good replica; looked exactly like a taxidermied cat; and satisfied the previously untapped market for stuffed cats on premium price crossings.
A stuffed, orange and white, Dowie, would have been a great take home item for us.
Ah yes. For those who were not aboard QM2 in her bizarre early days; the gift shoppe stocked life sized, ultra realistic, replicas of cats that had died in the line of duty protecting Merrie Olde England.
I only wish that I was joking.
My favorite was a cat which died of burn injuries, post battle, aboard some H.M.S. or other. I forget what its specific act of heroism was, but there was an attached tag that told the entire story. It was a very good replica; looked exactly like a taxidermied cat; and satisfied the previously untapped market for stuffed cats on premium price crossings.
A stuffed, orange and white, Dowie, would have been a great take home item for us.
Tom McLeod
Member
As I have read log references in Dianna Preston's book, they range from just odd references around the sinking, things Preston alleges a sub commander would not say, things of more of a personal matter almost of remorse that would not usually be found in a military log, where you just do you job, make notes and move on. There is also some change of type face etc in certain parts of his log. Wouldn't you know it, I leant the book to a friend, but when I get it back I will provide more notes and such on where such is mentioned.
Jim Kalafus
Member
Jeremy: The quote to which I refered was:
"...an unusually heavy detonation follows with a very strong explosion cloud (high in the air over first smokestack.) Added to the explosion of the torpedo there must have been a second explosion (boiler, coal or powder). The superstructure over point struck and the high bridge are rent asunder and fire breaks out and envelopes the high bridge. The ship stops immediately, and quickly heels to starboard. At the same time diving deeper at the bow."
The thing is, no one who was on deck saw it quite that way, and their impressions coordinate. Remember; we deal ONLY in accounts written in the first week. In this case, people who did not know one other, in two different classes, told interchangeable stories; none of which match tne details as given in the alleged eyewitness account by Schweiger. Damage to the bridge? Ship immediately stopped? Fire on the forward superstructure? Not according to anyone who was there, other than Schweiger.
Details such as that, however, LATER appeared in lurid press retellings of the disaster.
"...an unusually heavy detonation follows with a very strong explosion cloud (high in the air over first smokestack.) Added to the explosion of the torpedo there must have been a second explosion (boiler, coal or powder). The superstructure over point struck and the high bridge are rent asunder and fire breaks out and envelopes the high bridge. The ship stops immediately, and quickly heels to starboard. At the same time diving deeper at the bow."
The thing is, no one who was on deck saw it quite that way, and their impressions coordinate. Remember; we deal ONLY in accounts written in the first week. In this case, people who did not know one other, in two different classes, told interchangeable stories; none of which match tne details as given in the alleged eyewitness account by Schweiger. Damage to the bridge? Ship immediately stopped? Fire on the forward superstructure? Not according to anyone who was there, other than Schweiger.
Details such as that, however, LATER appeared in lurid press retellings of the disaster.
Martin Owen Cahill
Member
absolutely NOTHING to do vith vertical human transportation at all,
but highly enlighetening and entertaining - p---ed off wet cats included.
George thanks for the Seasame Street treatment.
seriously though. Jim I always had my doubts about the Schweiger log- stopped immediately? Fire on the bridge? Who wrote this redacted c--p?
admiralty [German] no doubt.
I am looking forward to reading all this in detail. Please ask Philip to include it in his new at ET emails as I do get these.
but highly enlighetening and entertaining - p---ed off wet cats included.
George thanks for the Seasame Street treatment.
seriously though. Jim I always had my doubts about the Schweiger log- stopped immediately? Fire on the bridge? Who wrote this redacted c--p?
admiralty [German] no doubt.
I am looking forward to reading all this in detail. Please ask Philip to include it in his new at ET emails as I do get these.
Jim Kalafus
Member
About the elevators. Something we discussed offboard were the 'hoists' located near the stairs aft of the various butcher-related storerooms and work rooms; and whether these could be the elevators of which George Wynne spoke.
No.
Two reasons; the first being that elevators meant for human use were clearly labeled as such, and we strongly suspect that there were square dumb waiters meant for quickly tranfering meat to the kitchens.
The second comes from reading up on the psychology of panic. Even if the butchers DID panic; in a situation where people literally feet away from the point of impact who watched water suddenly begin pouring in through portholes did not; piling into a hoist goes against the way people invariably act in life or death situations.
Studies show that people in all but the final stage of a disaster consistantly die because they fall into the tunnel-vision mindset of HAVING to exit the danger situation by the same route they entered. Time and again, in fact, invariably, we see people bypass safe and functional exits to get to a more remote but familiar point (Hartford Circus Fire, for instance) or die trying to find a way to ascend or descend an impassible staircase instead of trying to locate other, passible, routes.
People invariably do what used to be called 'stupid' things in the final stage of catastrophes, where all other escape options have been exhausted. People who hide under beds or in closets during fires do so because nothing else remains. We know that from the study of the few people who have done such things and survived.
Knowing that, I feel safe in saying that panicked crewmen, at the bow, who had water rising around them, WOULD have jammed into a dumb waiter as a last bid to live; while crewmen remote from the point of impact and far above the rising water would have followed the standard pattern of panicked people and trampled one another- and anyone who got in their way- on the one path they knew by which to exit the food stores area: the stairs.
No.
Two reasons; the first being that elevators meant for human use were clearly labeled as such, and we strongly suspect that there were square dumb waiters meant for quickly tranfering meat to the kitchens.
The second comes from reading up on the psychology of panic. Even if the butchers DID panic; in a situation where people literally feet away from the point of impact who watched water suddenly begin pouring in through portholes did not; piling into a hoist goes against the way people invariably act in life or death situations.
Studies show that people in all but the final stage of a disaster consistantly die because they fall into the tunnel-vision mindset of HAVING to exit the danger situation by the same route they entered. Time and again, in fact, invariably, we see people bypass safe and functional exits to get to a more remote but familiar point (Hartford Circus Fire, for instance) or die trying to find a way to ascend or descend an impassible staircase instead of trying to locate other, passible, routes.
People invariably do what used to be called 'stupid' things in the final stage of catastrophes, where all other escape options have been exhausted. People who hide under beds or in closets during fires do so because nothing else remains. We know that from the study of the few people who have done such things and survived.
Knowing that, I feel safe in saying that panicked crewmen, at the bow, who had water rising around them, WOULD have jammed into a dumb waiter as a last bid to live; while crewmen remote from the point of impact and far above the rising water would have followed the standard pattern of panicked people and trampled one another- and anyone who got in their way- on the one path they knew by which to exit the food stores area: the stairs.
George L. Lorton
Member
Your welcome Martin.
I had a orange and white turkish angora in high school named Sophinius. We thought he was a lady so we named him Sophie. I wish I still had him I could of sold him to a studio for a Lusitania Movie. Dowie's Daring Escape With Out Getting Wet From the Ship Of Doom.
What probably happened to Dowie. Not much change for a Cat in the midst of panic driven passengers. Trampled and tussled.
Tom McLeod
Member
Thanks for more information on the elevators. I guess if anything we see where the stories of trapped people come from. There may be an outside chance of more to the story, but I think evidence as presented on these boards has put most leads to bed. Bravo Gents!
Jim Kalafus
Member
>things Preston alleges a sub commander would not say, things of more of a personal matter almost of remorse that would not usually be found in a military log, where you just do you job, make notes and move on.
Even more curious, is that on days 2, 3 and 4, MANY people who did not know one another (some of whom were writing letters not meant for general consumption) gave interchangeable accounts of the submarine surfacing, and two men emerging briefly to survey the scene. The accounts are 50/50 on whether ot not a German flag was raised, but agree that there were two men, and that the subm,arine moved through a portion of the debris field while on the surface.
No mention of this appears in the log.
"Submerge to 24 meters and go to sea. I could not have fired a second torpedo into this throng of humanity attempting to save itself."
not only reeks of 'characterization' but entirely omits any reference to surfacing in the midst of this 'throng of humanity' after the ship had gone.
It sounds like something created to soften the impact of an act that had major repercussions and which could conceivably have been treated as a war crime post~defeat.
It is hard for me to remain objective on this point. The man attempted to kill a dear friend of mine and, as such, my inclination is to hope that his own death was as frightening and protractedly painful as possible. Distancing myself from that, I STILL find little to believe in the log as it has been presented. The eyewitness detail provided dont match what actually happened. There are key details omitted. And, frankly, his belief that he was torpedoing a troopship is the hardest part of the account to swallow.
Even more curious, is that on days 2, 3 and 4, MANY people who did not know one another (some of whom were writing letters not meant for general consumption) gave interchangeable accounts of the submarine surfacing, and two men emerging briefly to survey the scene. The accounts are 50/50 on whether ot not a German flag was raised, but agree that there were two men, and that the subm,arine moved through a portion of the debris field while on the surface.
No mention of this appears in the log.
"Submerge to 24 meters and go to sea. I could not have fired a second torpedo into this throng of humanity attempting to save itself."
not only reeks of 'characterization' but entirely omits any reference to surfacing in the midst of this 'throng of humanity' after the ship had gone.
It sounds like something created to soften the impact of an act that had major repercussions and which could conceivably have been treated as a war crime post~defeat.
It is hard for me to remain objective on this point. The man attempted to kill a dear friend of mine and, as such, my inclination is to hope that his own death was as frightening and protractedly painful as possible. Distancing myself from that, I STILL find little to believe in the log as it has been presented. The eyewitness detail provided dont match what actually happened. There are key details omitted. And, frankly, his belief that he was torpedoing a troopship is the hardest part of the account to swallow.
Tom McLeod
Member
What I have read from various sources has left the impression in my mind that the German Military was trying to sugar coat their actions. I think they just made things worse.
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