Victor Giglio


liz

Member
Does anyone have any information about Victor Giglio the valet to Ben Guggenheim? His life family nationality etc... Thanks.
 
D

Daniel Rosenshine

Guest
Hi!

This site does say that Mr Giglio was in B86, and his employer was in B82-84. Quite actually, Mr Giglio was in B84 with Guggenheim. B86 was occupied by someone else.

Mr Guggenheim did not occupy B-82-84, but merely occupied B84, with Giglio.

I'm sure that it is well known, that after Guggenheim and Giglio went up to the boat deck, they returned to put on their best clothes, and went down with the ship.

Daniel.
 
Dear Liz.

Victor Gaeton A. Giglio was born in Toxteth Park, Liverpool, England in 1888/89
Tht Guggenheim family described him as an "Egyptian" but I think it probable that he was Italian.

Best wishes & good luck!

Geoff.
 

Mike

Member
I remember reading one source that claimed Mr. Giglio was Armenian, and that his family (sister, I believe) wanted it clarified that he was Mr. Guggenheim's secretary, not a valet. Unfortunately, I don't remember where I read it. Has anyone else seen this?
 
From BYM:

UK. Titanic Valet Victor Giglio ; Family appeal by Merseyside Maritime Museum
quote:

He was involved in one of the most famous incidents on board the sinking Titanic but very little is known about his Liverpool roots.

Now curators of Merseyside Maritime Museum’s exciting new exhibition Titanic and Liverpool: the untold story — opening on 30 March 2012 — are appealing for information about Victor Giglio of 22 Linnet Lane near the city’s Sefton Park.
More HERE

Comment: An intriguing article on a surprisingly obscure individual. If any of the passenger people here can help, the article has contact information at the end.​
 

Arun Vajpey

Member
Not directly related to that article, but coincidentally, I was thinking about Victor Giglio just earlier today. It started with Steward Etches' encounter with Guggenheim and Giglio in the former's cabin after the collision.

Benjamin Guggenheim was heard (by whom?) to remark towards the end that they - Giglio and himself - had dressed in their best and were prepared to go down like gentlemen. There have even been remarks that people saw the two sitting on deck chairs calmly sipping brandy and smoking cigars. In any case, neither man survived.

I have often wondered about Giglio's mindset in the situation in which he found himself. He was a Liverpudlian of Italian descent and a "gentleman" only by the virtue of the fact that he was Guggenheim's valet. Did he feel compelled to follow his master's example - maybe even coerced? It is difficult for me to imagine that Giglio (RIP) voluntarily offered to remain on board with his boss and not even try to get a place on the boat.

What are others' thoughts on this?
 
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S

SmileyGirl

Guest
I’ve always felt sorry for him in that he was probably forced to stay or felt obliged to stay at any rate. Chances are he wouldn’t have got into a boat. But I do wonder what he was thinking. Well I wonder what everybody was thinking!
 
Not directly related to that article, but coincidentally, I was thinking about Victor Giglio just earlier today. It started with Steward Etches' encounter with Guggenheim and Giglio in the former's cabin after the collision.

Benjamin Guggenheim was heard (by whom?) to remark towards the end that they - Giglio and himself - had dressed in their best and were prepared to go down like gentlemen. There have even been remarks that people saw the two sitting on deck chairs calmly sipping brandy and smoking cigars. In any case, neither man survived.

I have often wondered about Giglio's mindset in the situation in which he found himself. He was a Liverpudlian of Italian descent and a "gentleman" only by the virtue of the fact that he was Guggenheim's valet. Did he feel compelled to follow his master's example - maybe even coerced? It is difficult for me to imagine that Giglio (RIP) voluntarily offered to remain on board with his boss and not even try to get a place on the boat.

What are others' thoughts on this?
It's not difficult for me to imagine. There were lots of sacrifices that night. From women choosing to stay with their husbands to men helping others get in the boats when they could have themselves. J.J. Astor's valet Victor Robbins went down with the ship too.
 
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Arun Vajpey

Member
Yes, but a spouse or other family member choosing to stay under such circumstances has an entirely different meaning. That is due to an emotional attachment, stronger in some than others.

But a servant choosing to remain with his master is different. With Astor, there has been mention that after helping his wife into Lifeboat #4, he politely asked if he could join her but was turned down. Is there any evidence or even rumour if Victor Robbins tried to find a place in one of the lifeboats? What were his whereabouts later on in the sinking? I do not recall reading anything about Robbins remaining with Astor but admit that I might have missed it.

In case of the other Victor - Giglio, there is the famous and oft repeated Guggenheim quote about 'going down like gentlemen'. That is why I wondered.
 
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Although I don't how you could prove it as a certain fact but from Col.Gracie's testimony it is pretty much accepted that JJ Astor did ask if he could get in the boat with his pregnant wife to look after her. Not an unreasonable request in my opinion. But when told he couldn't he stepped aside and then asked the number of the lifeboat in hopes he might find her later if he made it. There were lots of stories right after the sinking about his actions most probably just made up by the press but if you read his bio the guy was not a slacker. As for Robbins I haven't read anything either about where he was was during Titanics last minutes.
 

RileyGardner17

Riley Gardner
Member
I'm aware as to the age of this discussion, but as it's the only place where discussion on Giglio seems to be happening, I figured I'd ask:

Why did Guggenheim - an exceedingly wealthy man - share a cabin with Giglio? It seems odd to me, especially since he put Aubert and his chauffeur in separate cabins. The ship had more than enough space, and Guggenheim had more than a little money to splurge. If he wanted Giglio close at hand, why not give him a cheaper cabin across the corridor as others did with their servants?
 
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Thomas Krom

Member
B-86 (although he is listed as occupying it on his ET profile) the closer smaller stateroom nearby was already occupied by Mr. Cairns (the manservant of the Carter family). On-board is one more example of a servant which shared her stateroom with her employer (miss Ward sharing her stateroom with her employer Mrs. Cardeza)


It would have been impossible to book and occupy a stateroom accross the side of the corridor since a vent of the stokehold ventilators was located right across the door of B-84 fitted out in the Harland and Wolff bedroom B style (As you know it is a misconception that Guggenheim occupied B-82 in the Louis XV style).

One thing is for sure however, they shared stateroom B-84 fitted out in the Harland and Wolff bedroom B style with brass beds.
 
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I'm aware as to the age of this discussion, but as it's the only place where discussion on Giglio seems to be happening, I figured I'd ask:

Why did Guggenheim - an exceedingly wealthy man - share a cabin with Giglio? It seems odd to me, especially since he put Aubert and his chauffeur in separate cabins. The ship had more than enough space, and Guggenheim had more than a little money to splurge. If he wanted Giglio close at hand, why not give him a cheaper cabin across the corridor as others did with their servants?
Could have been for show. Probably wasn't there all the time. Especially when a certain visitor dropped by for..um...tea.
 
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Thomas Krom

Member
. Especially when a certain visitor dropped by for..um...tea.
That reminds me of the artwork by Jimmy Lombardo of B-82 (which is the inaccurate stateroom Mr. Guggenheim is put into). Most of his paintings on the Titanic are comparable to Van Gogh's his work in terms of style. I sadly cannot post it since it can be seen as "Not Safe For Work". It also reminds me of a scene in the 2012 miniseries.
 
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That reminds me of the artwork by Jimmy Lombardo of B-82 (which is the inaccurate stateroom Mr. Guggenheim is put into). Most of his paintings on the Titanic are comparable to Van Gogh's his work in terms of style. I sadly cannot post it since it can be seen as "Not Safe For Work". It also reminds me of a scene in the 2012 miniseries.
I will have to go check that out. Not familiar with a lot of the artwork that was on Titanic. Would you know off hand if WSL/H&W just bought art that was available or did they contract artists to do stuff specifically for their ships? Cheers.
 

Thomas Krom

Member
It isn't a period art style, it was made around 2012. Except for Norman Wilkinson his paintings most of the paintings were painted by Harland and Wolff themselves. Harland and Wollf in both their locations in Belfast and Southampton had an artists and decorators studio.
 
It isn't a period art style, it was made around 2012. Except for Norman Wilkinson his paintings most of the paintings were painted by Harland and Wolff themselves. Harland and Wollf in both their locations in Belfast and Southampton had an artists and decorators studio.
Ok. Thanks for the info. Yes that makes sense. Especially with all the work in that area that went into their ships that they would have their own department.
 

Arun Vajpey

Member
Could have been for show. Probably wasn't there all the time. Especially when a certain visitor dropped by for..um...tea.
Actually, that's interesting. Can it be that Guggenheim, a married man, only made it appear on paper and in public that he was sharing a cabin with Victor Giglio? Perhaps Mme Aubart actually spent the nights in B86 with Giglio sleeping in B35? The respective bedroom stewards would have found out of course, but with the right 'incentive' would not only say nothing but be actually willing to co-operate. Wasn't there some doubt about whether Emma Sagesser was in the same cabin?
 
Actually, that's interesting. Can it be that Guggenheim, a married man, only made it appear on paper and in public that he was sharing a cabin with Victor Giglio? Perhaps Mme Aubart actually spent the nights in B86 with Giglio sleeping in B35? The respective bedroom stewards would have found out of course, but with the right 'incentive' would not only say nothing but be actually willing to co-operate. Wasn't there some doubt about whether Emma Sagesser was in the same cabin?
It wouldn't be the first time that an arraignment like that would have taken place. But I was just speculating on the question as to why he had his servant booked into the same cabin. Looks good to the public and wifey back home. President Kennedy was known for doing the hotel swap on more than one occasion.
 
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