Victor Giglio

Thomas Krom

Thomas Krom

Member
B-86 (although he is listed as occupying it on his ET profile) the closer smaller stateroom nearby was already occupied by Mr. Cairns (the manservant of the Carter family). On-board is one more example of a servant which shared her stateroom with her employer (miss Ward sharing her stateroom with her employer Mrs. Cardeza)


It would have been impossible to book and occupy a stateroom accross the side of the corridor since a vent of the stokehold ventilators was located right across the door of B-84 fitted out in the Harland and Wolff bedroom B style (As you know it is a misconception that Guggenheim occupied B-82 in the Louis XV style).

One thing is for sure however, they shared stateroom B-84 fitted out in the Harland and Wolff bedroom B style with brass beds.
 
Steven Christian

Steven Christian

Member
I'm aware as to the age of this discussion, but as it's the only place where discussion on Giglio seems to be happening, I figured I'd ask:

Why did Guggenheim - an exceedingly wealthy man - share a cabin with Giglio? It seems odd to me, especially since he put Aubert and his chauffeur in separate cabins. The ship had more than enough space, and Guggenheim had more than a little money to splurge. If he wanted Giglio close at hand, why not give him a cheaper cabin across the corridor as others did with their servants?
Could have been for show. Probably wasn't there all the time. Especially when a certain visitor dropped by for..um...tea.
 
Thomas Krom

Thomas Krom

Member
. Especially when a certain visitor dropped by for..um...tea.
That reminds me of the artwork by Jimmy Lombardo of B-82 (which is the inaccurate stateroom Mr. Guggenheim is put into). Most of his paintings on the Titanic are comparable to Van Gogh's his work in terms of style. I sadly cannot post it since it can be seen as "Not Safe For Work". It also reminds me of a scene in the 2012 miniseries.
 
Steven Christian

Steven Christian

Member
That reminds me of the artwork by Jimmy Lombardo of B-82 (which is the inaccurate stateroom Mr. Guggenheim is put into). Most of his paintings on the Titanic are comparable to Van Gogh's his work in terms of style. I sadly cannot post it since it can be seen as "Not Safe For Work". It also reminds me of a scene in the 2012 miniseries.
I will have to go check that out. Not familiar with a lot of the artwork that was on Titanic. Would you know off hand if WSL/H&W just bought art that was available or did they contract artists to do stuff specifically for their ships? Cheers.
 
Thomas Krom

Thomas Krom

Member
It isn't a period art style, it was made around 2012. Except for Norman Wilkinson his paintings most of the paintings were painted by Harland and Wolff themselves. Harland and Wollf in both their locations in Belfast and Southampton had an artists and decorators studio.
 
Steven Christian

Steven Christian

Member
It isn't a period art style, it was made around 2012. Except for Norman Wilkinson his paintings most of the paintings were painted by Harland and Wolff themselves. Harland and Wollf in both their locations in Belfast and Southampton had an artists and decorators studio.
Ok. Thanks for the info. Yes that makes sense. Especially with all the work in that area that went into their ships that they would have their own department.
 
Arun Vajpey

Arun Vajpey

Member
Could have been for show. Probably wasn't there all the time. Especially when a certain visitor dropped by for..um...tea.
Actually, that's interesting. Can it be that Guggenheim, a married man, only made it appear on paper and in public that he was sharing a cabin with Victor Giglio? Perhaps Mme Aubart actually spent the nights in B86 with Giglio sleeping in B35? The respective bedroom stewards would have found out of course, but with the right 'incentive' would not only say nothing but be actually willing to co-operate. Wasn't there some doubt about whether Emma Sagesser was in the same cabin?
 
Steven Christian

Steven Christian

Member
Actually, that's interesting. Can it be that Guggenheim, a married man, only made it appear on paper and in public that he was sharing a cabin with Victor Giglio? Perhaps Mme Aubart actually spent the nights in B86 with Giglio sleeping in B35? The respective bedroom stewards would have found out of course, but with the right 'incentive' would not only say nothing but be actually willing to co-operate. Wasn't there some doubt about whether Emma Sagesser was in the same cabin?
It wouldn't be the first time that an arraignment like that would have taken place. But I was just speculating on the question as to why he had his servant booked into the same cabin. Looks good to the public and wifey back home. President Kennedy was known for doing the hotel swap on more than one occasion.
 
Arun Vajpey

Arun Vajpey

Member
The problem is, as I said, that B-86 was already occupied
My apologies. What I was insinuating was that the fact that Guggenheim and Giglio were listed as though they were occupying the same cabin (B-84, as you say) might have been for appearances only so that Mrs Guggenheim or some nosy reporter would not think anything was amiss. Likewise, Mme Aubart's maid Emma Sagesser might not really have been sharing Cabin B-35 with her employer - there has always been a question mark about that. What Steven is suggesting - and I agree - is that the arrangement might have been in place to facilitate Guggenheim's nocturnal rendezvous with his mistress. Once back home with his family, chances would be less till the next business trip.
 
Steven Christian

Steven Christian

Member
Actually, that's interesting. Can it be that Guggenheim, a married man, only made it appear on paper and in public that he was sharing a cabin with Victor Giglio? Perhaps Mme Aubart actually spent the nights in B86 with Giglio sleeping in B35? The respective bedroom stewards would have found out of course, but with the right 'incentive' would not only say nothing but be actually willing to co-operate. Wasn't there some doubt about whether Emma Sagesser was in the same cabin?
I think the staff that took care of the passengers needs probably saw lots of stuff going on. It came with the territory. If they were caught dishing dirt they would have found themselves unemployed rather quickly. No need for extra incentives unless it was something really bad. As to a topic in another post in this thread. As for Guggenheim I can't say but I've read that often the valets or whatever title they had were often not just employees but friends and confidants that some of the power brokers had that were the only people they could trust. Scheming business partners, family members ect ect. It's only a guess but I believe that's why J. Cameron put the evil mom willing to sell her daughter in the movie. He was alluding to that stuff that went on in that level of society. Cheers.
 
Yuki.y

Yuki.y

Member
Hello. This is my first time to post on the forum. My name is Yuki, and I have recently started researching about Victor Giglio.
My English is not very good, so I apologize if I am using rude words. :_(
I have a question for you, my dear ETs. I would like to ask you about Mr. Giglio's occupation.

In Mr. Etches' testimony, some newspapers immediately after the sinking, boarding records, and the autobiography of Mr. Guggenheim's daughter Peggy Guggenheim, Mr. Giglio's occupation is clearly stated as "secretary. I have also found records that suggest that Mr. Giglio accompanied Mr. Guggenheim to his office in New York. From the various records, I believe that his occupation was socially treated as that of a "secretary".
However, I have seen many books and web pages in which Mr. Giglio is described as a "valet".

The Crew Records of the Titanic mentions that Mr. Guggenheim and Mr. Giglio were in the same place just before they boarded the ship. If this was Mr. Guggenheim's home rather than the company's office, then it is certainly possible that Mr. Giglio was both secretary and valet. (I checked ...... to see if that address was Mr. Guggenheim's corporate office or his home, but I couldn't find it.)
However, I could not read anything in the records to indicate that he was a "valet". Since the social positions of "secretary" and "valet" seem to be quite different, it seems a little strange that even if Mr. Giglio was both secretary and valet, he is referred to as a valet rather than a secretary.

This brings me to the following questions.

1. There is a record that Mr. Giglio was a secretary at that time. Also, the people around Mr. Giglio referred to him as his "secretary". So why is it that in later years, many media wrote that his occupation was "valet"?
2. Is the address on Titanic's Crew Records their home?
3. If the address on Titanic's Crew Records is their home ......, was it common for secretaries and their employers to live in the same house at the time?

If you know anything about this, I would appreciate it if you could let me know. :)
 
Matthew Chapman

Matthew Chapman

Member
Hi Thomas. I am "Jimmy Lombardo" and yes, I painted that in 2012 using the information available to me at the time.
 
Thomas Krom

Thomas Krom

Member
Good day to you,


1. There is a record that Mr. Giglio was a secretary at that time. Also, the people around Mr. Giglio referred to him as his "secretary". So why is it that in later years, many media wrote that his occupation was "valet"?
I believe some depictions in the movies of Mr. Giglio could be the reasons of the misconception. His profile on the website interestingly states the following:
"Giglio was valet (probably more of a secretary or personal assistant than a servant) to Mr Benjamin Guggenheim."
2. Is the address on Titanic's Crew Records their home?
I don't exactly know to which exact list you refer to but I know there's a list that noted down nearly all the names of the victims that has their final residence before the disaster on it. I shall go into more detail in the following statement to tell you what it said.
3. If the address on Titanic's Crew Records is their home ......, was it common for secretaries and their employers to live in the same house at the time?
On the list of the noted deaths at sea the last known residences of the victims are noted, by some there's just simply a city refererend to by name while others have an adres stated.

1639502708815


Luckily Mr. Guggenheim and Mr. Giglio have their exact adres listed on this very list and give their adres as Avenue Montaigne in Paris, France. Sadly I cannot confirm the exact adres as either number 57, 59 or 67 due to the handwriting. However, I believe number 57 is the most likely choice.

On Google maps it shows a large, luxurious terraced house if you type number 57 down. Since Mr. Giglio joined Mr. Guggenheim to France so I believe it is possible that he stayed at this very same adres.


I hope this may helps you.


Yours sincerely,


Thomas
 
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