Was Capt Smith lost in a daze during the sinking?

[Michael H. Standart]

>>I am surprised it's not been reported on your side of the pond?<<

It may have been, but if it was, it would have probably been on the back page of the Entertainment section. With the avalanch of stories reported every day of greater import, I doubt the newsies on my side would have paid that much attention to a story given in a local media outlet.

>>I guess the thing to do is have Cameron clear up what he actually said or didn't say.<<

I agree. I would be greatly unsurprised if the whole of what he said was hacked to the point of being unrecognizable in what was finally printed.

 

[Ernie Luck]

Thanks for your comments gents, I know the topic has been well chewed over before. I was just a bit incensed when I read the newspaper report.

 

[Kyrila Scully]

<cameron>

I was just watching that particular scene at the Titanic exhibit in Orlando yesterday. I marveled that in the very next scene Wallace Hartley is commenting that they should play lively music "as the captain ordered." So one second, he is catatonic, the next he is ordering the orchestra to play lively music. Doesn't gel. I've often wondered if perhaps when the officer reporting that Capt. Smith seemed "out of it" if he wasn't instead deep in concentration, trying to calculate in his mind what needed to be done next or how long it would take a ship to come to their rescue? I know when I'm deep in thought it takes a couple of times to get my attention.

Kyrila

 

[Yuri Singleton]

Captain Smith released the two Marconi operators directly. He didn't have a quartermaster do it, or even a jr. officer. He personally walked/ran to their room and told them they were to look out for themselves from that point on. Indicating that Smith had come to a final conclusion about the fate of Titanic. His coming to such a conclusion tells me that he was in a state of ongoing evaluation of the ship's situation. Not a state of disorientation or disassociation.

Smith didn't know for certain how long the ship would float or be able to sustain life aboard it. He did know that eventually she would sink. In Smith's mind, Titanic might be somehow float for several hours before disappearing. How could he know for sure? As long as Smith had reason to believe that Titanic was able to sustain life, he was required to try to direct his crew in efforts to combat the flooding, keep the power on, call for help, and maintain order. Why would Smith take it as gospel that the ship would sink in less than two hours. Who knew for certain Titanic couldn't somehow float until morning despite the dire predictions. Smith didn't know as much about Titanic as we do. He didn't know the rate of flooding. As long as the ship is able to sustain life, it makes sense that he would desire his crew to perform their duty and see to the care of the passengers, and try to maintain the stability of the ship as long as possible. Every hour the crew can keep Titanic stable and afloat, even if they are fighting a loosing battle, is an hour less everyone will spend in the water until help does finally arrive. Every minute counted and Smith knew this. In short, what sense does it make for a captain to give up on his command just because he's told the ship is doomed. It doesn't. Especially not when half an hour after the collision his vessel is on a relatively even keel, in flat calm seas, and in clear weather. And add to that he knows help is on the way. He can even see lights on the horizon. Surely the logical conclusion at that point is for him to direct his crew to fight to keep the ship afloat at all costs to equipment, and property. Not to simply turn to his first officer and say,'Well we're sunk. Abandon ship, and good luck ol' boy. I'll be lingering about slipping into a state of mental debilitaion.' I don't think so. Smith fought on to preserve his ship as long as possible. And he maintained a watchful monitoring of the situation. The question on his mind was likely, 'How long can we last before we loose her?', and 'What else can we do to hold on to her?' Today we know they managed to keep her mostly above the waves for 21/2 hours. Actually almost an hour longer than was predicted. While the crew frantically fought the force of the Atlantic, Smith watched, took in information, felt, listened, judged.
But then the ship finally began to tip and started its death throws. Smith certainly determined in his expert eye that the fight was over and no more efforts by his crew could prolong the stability of the ship. At this point he did his final duty which was to release his crew from their duty to him and instruct them to do whatever they could to save themselves. Having issued a command of 'every man for himself', or something to that effect, he then was left to deal with his own fate.
He could have retired to his cabin for a smoke. Or he could have put a pistol to his head. But he didn't.

For reasons we shall never know or understand, Smith dove into the water and into the realm of legend.

IMHO
Yuri

 

[Ernie Luck]

Yuri, Thanks for your very interesting analysis.

 

[Erik Wood]

I think in general Smith's intelligence is underestimated. People seem to be of the opinion that Smith didn't know the extent of this or that. The reality is none of us know. He may have known exactly what was happening, then he again maybe he didn't.

As the master of the vessel, and with passengers in his charge, the ships builder or the eningeers word on length of time the ship would have floated should have been good enough to start the process, to get the ball rolling. Smith didn't need to know the particulars he needed the general picture so that he could formulate a plan and issue orders to get it done. Once he did that, there isn't much for him to do. It was no longer about saving the ship as it was about keeping it afloat and on an even keel. Niether of which directly involves the master. I think to say that Smith didn't understand the situation doesn't give him the credit I think he deserves.

In short Smith did what he was supposed to that night in my opinion.

I hope my words regarding Cameron where not taken the wrong way. My intention and meaning was that he is a director of movies, not a professional mariner. He...like the rest of us are mere spectators in the big blue ball of Titanic. If the comments he made where true and an exact quote, then I think since he voiced his opinion in expert like manner, it is open for those who have done the job to respond to his judgements about subject he has only read about and not experienced. Make no mistake, I have no problem with the opinion, I have a problem with it be asserted as fact. Just as my opinions of Smith are just..opinions, and should not be taken as the gospel or the truth, just my opinion.

 

[Ernie Luck]

Hello Capt.Eric

As you say, Cameron is entitled to his opinion but I much prefer yours. I think Yuri has a point that in the early stages they were uncertain how long Titanic would stay afloat; hope springs eternal. There must have been ominous signs pretty soon and once people started to get their feet wet.........

Sadly we will never know and can only speculate - what a pity Capt. Smith did not survive.

 

[Richard Otter]

In shock certainly but in a daze, I very much doubt it. As the previous posts point out, as soon as all the fact became known he acted. 18 of the lifeboats launched and order maintained virtually until the very end. Could he have done more, surely, but would we have reacted as well in the circumstances? I very much doubt it. Many times I’ve tried to imagine what it must have been like for the officers and crew that night, as it become clear what was going to happen, it must have seemed like a nightmare to them. I only fault Smith on one thing, lifeboat drill. He should have ensured that each lifeboat would be manned by a trained, experience crew. But why would he bother, from the bridge of the Titanic the great ship really must have seemed unsinkable.

 

[Noel F. Jones]

"But why would he bother, from the bridge of the Titanic the great ship really must have seemed unsinkable."

Tell him, somebody.

Noel

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>But why would he bother, from the bridge of the Titanic the great ship really must have seemed unsinkable.<<

How about because public pronouncements notwithstanding, he knew better then that. I don't think you'll find many mariners who subscribe to the illusion that there was any such animal as an unsinkable ship. His playing to the media aside, you can bet E.J. had no such illusions either.

I think you'll find that lifeboat drills were also required as well, if not by law, ceretainly by the line. Even then, they weren't always what we would understand to be a proper drill today. At sea, the drill would consist of mustering the designated boat crews, reviewing some proceedures and very little beyond that, after which they were dismissed. This wasn't just White Star but nearly every line which did business that way, and the whole thing was done without the passengers being involved.

>>I only fault Smith on one thing, lifeboat drill. He should have ensured that each lifeboat would be manned by a trained, experience crew.<<

And that's where you would run into a problem. What trained and experienced crew? The Deck Crew amounted to 66 people, some of whom would have to remain behind to work the davits. Even releasing some when no longer needed, you still have the problem of running out of trained seamen long befor you run out of boats to put them in. That's why the people who manned the boats included scratch crews of engineers, stewards, and even some of the passengers!

 

[Erik Wood]

Hasn't that always been the problem?? Not enought trained and knowledgeable people to carry out the assigned task?? It seems...and I would agree that that is an underlying story of the Titanic Story, and will be for some future ship.

 

[Susan Alby]

Hello Richard,

It must have been thrilling for Titanic's Crew and those passengers who had the opportunity to stand on the Titanic's bridge, towering over the sea. It certainly could have induced a feeling of invincibility among some. A first class passenger, Helen Candee wrote about her 'paranormal' experience during sunrise on the bridge of the Titanic during the voyage. When she thought that the ship was more powerful or stronger than God, she felt a very dark feeling wash over her like something horrible was to happen (see "GOTA").

Susan

 

[Noel F. Jones]

Looks like another dark and stormy night....

Heigh-ho!

Noel

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>Hasn't that always been the problem?? <<

Shortage of people? Yeah. Been there done that, declined to get the T-Shirt. I think some people would be amazed to find out how few the trained deckape marlinspike type seamen are in preportion to the rest of the ships crew, even on a warship. It's even worse on a cruise ship/liner and I've an ugly feeling that one of these days, it's going to bite!

 

[Richard Otter]

“And that's where you would run into a problem. What trained and experienced crew? The Deck Crew amounted to 66 people, some of whom would have to remain behind to work the davits….. “

Michael

You are quite correct of course, but I would ask who was expected to man the lifeboats? If they had been used for the expected purpose of ferrying people to waiting ships they would have needed a crew. Titanic had a small deck crew but plenty of other personnel who should have been assigned to a lifeboat as part of the disaster procedures. But, Smith was confident in the technology and his abilities and those of his officers and crew. So I guess he thought that he didn’t need to bother.

Richard