Was Duke Johann Salvator shopwrecked in 1890?


Arne Mjåland

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I am coming up with a story which for many will be difficult to believe. Duke Johann Salvator (Johann Orth) may not have drowned in an orkan at the south Argentina coast 12 July 1889. Instead he may have survived, and have lived in Kristiansand, Norway from 1906 until he died in 1945.
In 1890 Duke Johann refused all his royal titles, and would not have anything to do with the royal family any more. It is expected that Johann was onboard his commercial ship St, Margaret outside Argentina in July 1890. He was married to balletdancer Ludmilla Strubel, born 11 September 1852 in Wien. She was also supposed to have been in the ship St. Margaret. She was declared dead in Desember 1913.
Johann was declared dead 6 May 1911.
Johann had in 1880 bought the identipapers from a Hugo Alexander Kohler from Eilenburg near Leipzig.
According to a diary found after the new Hugo Kohler died in 1945. he had written down thet he was Johann Salvator. and had used the name Hugo Kohler. He is buried in Kristiansand. There is a gravestone with Hugo Kohler s name on, but without the yeear of his birth. A grandchild Franz Kohler Rolfvaag has taken DNA test in U.S.A. hoping it will match descendants of the rayal Austrian family.
Johann Salvator was the youngest son of Duke Leopoldd II from Toscana and his wife Maria Antonie from Neapel-Sicilien.
In another paper Kohler left, he wrote about the Mayerling tragedy in Wien in January 1889. There was crownprince Rudolph and his girlfriend Vetsera killed under unclear circumstences. According to Kohler Vetsera killed Rudolph and the servant Loschek shot Vetsera. More of this is to read on the "Mayerling Forum"
Is it possible to find out more about the wreckage of the ship St. Nargaret outside Argentina in July 1890 anywhere. If possible. I would like to hear about it.
 

Dave Gittins

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I love the new word in the title of this thread! It's a good addition to the language. I've sometimes been shopwrecked, generally when buying yachting gear.
 

Arne Mjåland

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For those intested in this matter. also read my entries about Johann Orth in "Mayerling Forum", However, you have then be able to understand German language
 

CARLOS LUIS

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Feb 21, 2007
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Hello Arne,
I am interested to know more about, Mr. Franz Kohler DNA test; which one are you talking about ? ;Is the Y-Chromosome DNA sequence ?

Carlos
 

Arne Mjåland

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June 7 2007 two Norwegians arrive in Gemunden, Austria. They claim they are descendants of Johann Ort who was supposed to be shipwrecked around Kap Horn. They are invited by the Mayor of Gemunden to see "Schloss Orth"which they ckaim if DNA tests with Habsburgers match.
Karl Zehethofer, leader of the DNA analysen specialistInstituts DNAPRO will make the tests. "Never again I will get such an interesting task to make", said Zehethofer. The Austrian online newspapers have a lot of articles about the visit already, and probably they will write even more about it when the visit is over.
 

Arne Mjåland

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There has bees some developement in the claim that Hugo Kí¸hler, Kristiansand, Norway was the same person as Johann Ort. The church admistration in Norway has recently given the permission to open Hugo Kí¸hler s grave in Kristiansand churchyard. That was the result after family researcher Jan Frode Johansens efforts through many years to find out if the story is true.
In Norway there is a debate forum called Digitalarkivet. where the Kí¸hler affair has created enourmous interest. I personally doubt if the story is true, because the shape of the heads of Johann Ort and Hugo Kí¸hler are too different. Also it is not true, as Kí¸hler claimed, that he was at Mayerling as a guest when crownprince Rudolph died in 1889 under mysterious circumstances.
 

Arne Mjåland

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According to the newspaper Faedrelandsvennen, Norway Hugo Kí¸hler s grave at Kristiansand churchyard was opened January 26 2009. DNA experts from the institute GENA in Stavanger secured the remains of two legs. DNA tests shall now give the family the definite answer whether the man who died 63 years ago was identical to Johan Ort, The remains are going to be sent to Austria for analysis. Every year 40 50 persons contact the Habsburgers in Austria, claiming that they are descendatnts of Johan Ort. Everybody are refused, but not this family from Norway.It could end up with that a few Norwegians inherit part of Schloss Ort and other properties in Austria. Austrian authorities have
informed that they will give away the propeties including the famous Schloss Ort in Gemunden.
According to family researcher Jan Frode Johansen it is necessary to secure DNA from a present living female descendant of Johan Ort. A particular material which only is inherited from mother to daughter.
 

Dayolo

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May 19, 2013
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Hello Arne
I too am researching the fate of Johann Salvator. In 1924, Dr. Orlof N. Orlow claimed to be the archduke and shortly after his revelation was buried as such in NYC, his claim being supported by a number of royals. Dr. Orlow was an artist, collector, writer, and lecturer. He was also a professor of metaphysical studies, and had a number of famous friends and contemporaries. He declared US citizenship in 1916, but arrived in 1898 from Mexico. In 1917 he was placed on the Neutrality Watch List because he was suspected of supporting Germany. While living in California, Dr. Orlow wrote and published a monthly edition called "Atmos", which is of a metaphysical nature. when Dr. Orlow died he was living with his ward, a woman named Grace Wakefield. The day afte his death she committed suicide after drowning her parrot and two dogs. In connection to Charlotte Fairchild, socialite turned photographer, who was a supporter of Dr. Orlow's claim, I have read that his claim was disputed in 1927, but can find no details about the findings. Have you examined Orlow's claim?
 

Archduke

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Nov 27, 2020
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I am coming up with a story which for many will be difficult to believe. Duke Johann Salvator (Johann Orth) may not have drowned in an orkan at the south Argentina coast 12 July 1889. Instead he may have survived, and have lived in Kristiansand, Norway from 1906 until he died in 1945.
In 1890 Duke Johann refused all his royal titles, and would not have anything to do with the royal family any more. It is expected that Johann was onboard his commercial ship St, Margaret outside Argentina in July 1890. He was married to balletdancer Ludmilla Strubel, born 11 September 1852 in Wien. She was also supposed to have been in the ship St. Margaret. She was declared dead in Desember 1913.
Johann was declared dead 6 May 1911.
Johann had in 1880 bought the identipapers from a Hugo Alexander Kohler from Eilenburg near Leipzig.
According to a diary found after the new Hugo Kohler died in 1945. he had written down thet he was Johann Salvator. and had used the name Hugo Kohler. He is buried in Kristiansand. There is a gravestone with Hugo Kohler s name on, but without the yeear of his birth. A grandchild Franz Kohler Rolfvaag has taken DNA test in U.S.A. hoping it will match descendants of the rayal Austrian family.
Johann Salvator was the youngest son of Duke Leopoldd II from Toscana and his wife Maria Antonie from Neapel-Sicilien.
In another paper Kohler left, he wrote about the Mayerling tragedy in Wien in January 1889. There was crownprince Rudolph and his girlfriend Vetsera killed under unclear circumstences. According to Kohler Vetsera killed Rudolph and the servant Loschek shot Vetsera. More of this is to read on the "Mayerling Forum"
Is it possible to find out more about the wreckage of the ship St. Nargaret outside Argentina in July 1890 anywhere. If possible. I would like to hear about it.
I'm also interested in this story. If you respond by e-mail, I'll tell you what I've found. Paul V. Turner. E-mail: [email protected]
 

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