Was Murdoch drunk at the wheel?


James B

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Please indicate where I am being disrespectful to you.

What have you so far contributes to earn my respect?

When you are ready to engage in a proper debate, I am more than willing to oblige you., but til then: :D TTFN
As I mentioned before, Iam not here to satisfy anyone and I dont need your respect or anyones approvel for that matter.

Good night and good luck.
Jim happens to be a retired master mariner and marine accident investigator.

He's spent a fair amount of his life on the bridge of ships and has also experienced what ice on the North Atlantic is like first hand.

Now and again I may disagree with Jim but on this occasion I am with him 100%.
Agree about what? that luck plays amajor role in seamanship and the tragic fate of the Titanic? Sorry, I dont accept that opinion, doesnt matter from who it is coming from, it can be from God all mighty himself, I would still disagree.
 

Seumas

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As I mentioned before, Iam not here to satisfy anyone and I dont need your respect or anyones approvel for that matter.

Good night and good luck.

Agree about what? that luck plays amajor role in seamanship and the tragic fate of the Titanic? Sorry, I dont accept that opinion, doesnt matter from who it is coming from, it can be from God all mighty himself, I would still disagree.
I was agreeing with Jim on his previous post correcting you on how the bridge on a British merchant ship was navigated and operated.

Perhaps then you could be a wee bit more constructive and tell us what sources are using for your arguments and what your credentials are then if you are an ex-mariner.
 

Mark Baber

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Moderator's hat on:

Let's knock off the personal commentary and return to the subject, which is Murdoch.

Moderator's hat off.
 
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Jul 9, 2000
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Binoculars would have made no difference? I dont agree with that statement, its an important tool of the watch keepers even today. Its hard to understand how come they sailed with out them.

James, have you ever stood underway lookout watches?
I have.
Have you done so under adverse conditions?
I have.
Have you ever tried searching with binoculars?
I have.
Binoculars are next to useless for searching. The impose an unacceptable level of tunnel vision and it's all too easy to miss something while trying to do so. I learned very early on to scan with the naked eye very early on, and use binocular ONLY to identify something once I saw it and knew where it was.
 
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James B

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James, have you ever stood underway lookout watches?
I have.
Have you done so under adverse conditions?
I have.
Have you ever tried searching with binoculars?
I have.
As amatter of fact I have.
Binoculars are next to useless for searching. The impose an unacceptable level of tunnel vision and it's all too easy to miss something while trying to do so. I learned very early on to scan with the naked eye very early on, and use binocular ONLY to identify something once I saw it and knew where it was.
You dont stand with them glued to your eyes all the watch, ashort horizon scaning during a moonless night from time to time is always agood practice in my experiance to detect small unlit targets which cant be detected by radar, in some places in the world fishermen use rafts, only when they see you they use a torch to show thier position, easy to miss them with naked eye on board the bridge of alarge ship, with binoculars you can see thier silhouette in ample time and take action with out runing them over.
 
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Jim Currie

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James, have you ever stood underway lookout watches?
I have.
Have you done so under adverse conditions?
I have.
Have you ever tried searching with binoculars?
I have.
Binoculars are next to useless for searching. The impose an unacceptable level of tunnel vision and it's all too easy to miss something while trying to do so. I learned very early on to scan with the naked eye very early on, and use binocular ONLY to identify something once I saw it and knew where it was.
Absolutely, Michael. What is your opinion on being able to see a fisherman silhouetted against the night sky on a dark, moonless night or against a dark ocean for that matter?

I'm sure you will also agree that binoculars are only of use when weather conditions permit.

Having performed the duty in war and peacetimes, I perfectly understand that on a warship, it is necessary for lookouts to identify and verbally report objects since they may not always be benign, However. that is not the case in a merchant vessel.
You will remember that the lookouts on Titanic were not permitted to instigate verbal contact with the bridge except at a moment of extreme danger., so there was no need for them to confirm a sighting by binoculars... they simply had to draw the attention of the OOW by ringing the bell..1 - 2 or 3.
 
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James B, all you've said is something I've trained for and done, and it was a HELL of a lot easier said than done. I learned very early on to scan with the naked eye to avoid the tunnel vision which binoculars impose.

The scanning in very short sweeps is something I've attempted and came to learn it was still all too easy to miss something that way. Keep in mind too that the instruments of the day were not the heavy things with huge lenses I was used to handling. They were essentially kids toys by todays standards, and didn't even have coated lenses to intensify light.
 
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If you read through the link at the beginning of this thread it seems at one point or another just about everyone on the bridge was accused of being drunk by somebody. Sounds a lot like the shooting stories. If you add up all the shooting claims Titanic would have needed an armory with a huge ammo locker. I suspect most of these drunk stories were just made up like a lot of other stories either by disgruntled passengers or the press ginning up stories (no pun intended). As for binoculars the only ones I remember aboard my ship were the huge ones that were mounted where the signalmen did their thing. By I don't know what they have today as they got of rid of the signalmen. I'm outdated on the newer ships of today. So much has changed. I don't even know if the newer carriers (ford class) have a "vultures row" where you could see what goes on topside.
 
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