Wasn't Jack Phillips wearing a lifebelt?


Nov 8, 2016
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Hey, so reviewing brides testimony he clearly says that Phillips had his lifebelt on. If this is the case how was his body not recovered? If Phillips did die on boat B and had a lifebelt on, his body most likely would've been recovered right? Perhaps this is evidence that Phillips never reached collapsible B after all, and died in the sinking during those final moments. Either that or he died on the collapsible and was buried at sea from the carpathia. Thoughts?
 

B-rad

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The lifebelts were made of cork and would not have allowed for much buoyancy for too long. It is possible that the body drifted with all the others.
 
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Aaron_2016

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The lifebelts were made of cork and would not have allowed for much buoyancy for too long. It is possible that the body drifted with all the others.
Bride gave a personal account in 1912. He said: "Phillips ran aft, and that was the last I ever saw of him alive.......At last the Carpathia was alongside, and the people were being taken up a rope ladder. Our boat drew near, and one by one the men were taken off of it. One man was dead. I passed him, and went to a ladder, although my feet pained me terribly. The dead man was Phillips. He died on the raft from exposure and cold."

This suggests that Phillips was alive with the other men who were transferred off the upturned collapsible when Lowe returned to rescue them in his boat.

In 1936 Lightoller released his book and he said Phillips told him on the collapsible that he received a wireless message from the Mesaba but he accidently put a paper weight over it and forgot about it. This deeply upset Bride and he complained very strongly in this British newspaper from 1936 shortly after the publication of Lightoller's book.



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Nov 8, 2016
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Bride gave a personal account in 1912. He said: "Phillips ran aft, and that was the last I ever saw of him alive.......At last the Carpathia was alongside, and the people were being taken up a rope ladder. Our boat drew near, and one by one the men were taken off of it. One man was dead. I passed him, and went to a ladder, although my feet pained me terribly. The dead man was Phillips. He died on the raft from exposure and cold."

This suggests that Phillips was alive with the other men who were transferred off the upturned collapsible when Lowe returned to rescue them in his boat.

In 1936 Lightoller released his book and he said Phillips told him on the collapsible that he received a wireless message from the Mesaba but he accidently put a paper weight over it and forgot about it. This deeply upset Bride and he complained very strongly in this British newspaper from 1936 shortly after the publication of Lightoller's book.



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Yes, I recall reading that article a couple of years back. However one thing I never understood is, if Phillips was on collapsible B wouldn't bride have known since he was there too? As I recall Bride didn't know Phillips was on Boat B until someone told him afterwards, If Phillips was on B wouldn't bride have known? Obviously it was utter chaos at that time but the boat wasn't that big. Also if Phillips told lightoller about the ice message from the Mesaba how come lightoller never mentioned it at any of the inquiries?
 

Ryan Burns

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It seems like the general consensus has always been that Lightoller was mistaking Bride for Phillips. However, I think it's hard for us to understand how absolute pitch dark it must have been with no moon in the middle of the North Atlantic. I bet their visibility was only a few feet or so. So it's possible that Bride and Phillips may have been on different ends of the boat.

I don't think Bride would make up seeing the dead corpse of his friend, so I think it's very possible that both were on B. Thus, Phillips would have been among those that the Carpathia buried at sea.
 
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Aaron_2016

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It was steward Whiteley who claimed that Philips was on boat B which was not true.
But Harold Bride himself said he witnessed Phillips' body in the boat as he approached the rope ladder of the Carpathia


"At last the Carpathia was alongside, and the people were being taken up a rope ladder. Our boat drew near, and one by one the men were taken off of it. One man was dead. I passed him, and went to a ladder, although my feet pained me terribly. " "The dead man was Phillips. He died on the raft from exposure and cold. I guess he had been all in from work before the wreck came. He stood his ground until the crisis passed and then collapsed. But I hardly thought of that then; I didn't think much about anything. I tried the rope ladder. My feet pained me terribly, but I got to the top, and felt hands reaching out to me."


Bride's complaint in the 1936 newspaper was interesting because he did not dispute Lightoller's claim that Phillips was on the upturned boat, he only complained about the discussion that Lightoller said he had with Phillips regarding the Mesaba. There are many embarrassing facts that were left out of the Inquiry and this wireless message was likely one of them. As Lightoller said the Inquiry was a "whitewash" and how "dirty linen would help no one". e.g. The lookouts told the American inquiry that they did not ring 7 bells at 11:30pm - Fleet said: "We never generally ring bells up in the crow's nest every half hour; we generally miss it." - but they told the official British Inquiry that they did ring 7 bells. They likely had to show that everything was done by the book (if they wanted to keep their jobs).

What is interesting is that Bride was given $1000 for his exclusive story to Marconi as soon as the Carpathia arrived in New York. The following was brought up at the American Inquiry:


'This is from the commanding officer of the Florida to the Secretary of the Navy, dated, April 22, and reads as follows:'

'On the evening of the steamship Carpathia's arrival in New York, the four following radiograms were intercepted by the chief operator, J. R. Simpson, chief electrician, United States Navy. They appear to me to be significant enough to be brought to the attention of the department.'


Seagate to Carpathia - 8.12PM
"Say, old man, Marconi Co. Taking good care of you. Keep your mouth shut, and hold your story. It is fixed for you so you will get big money. Now, please do your best to clear."


To Marconi officer, Carpathia and Titanic - 8.30PM
"Arranged for your exclusive story for dollars in four figures, Mr. Marconi agreeing. Say nothing until you see me. Where are you now? - J. M. Sammis Opr. C.


From Seagate to Carpathia operator - 9PM
"Go to Strand Hotel. 502 West Fourteenth Street. To meet Mr. Marconi. - C."


From Seagate to Carpathia - 9.33PM
"A personal to operator Carpathia. Meet Mr. Marconi and Sammis at Strand Hotel, 502 West Fourteenth Street. Keep your mouth shut. - Mr Marconi."



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Aaron_2016

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4 bodies were taken aboard Carpathia, none of them was Phillips.
Do we know who the 4 bodies were?

Captain Rostron

"We took three dead men from the boats, and they were brought on board. Another man was brought up. I think he was one of the crew, who died that morning about 10 o'clock, I think, and he, with the other three, were buried at 4 o'clock in the afternoon."

Q - At sea?
A - At sea.
Q - Did they have anything on their persons by which they could be identified?
A - One of my own officers and the Titanic's officers identified the bodies, as far as possible, and took everything from them that could be of the slightest clue or use. Nothing was left but their clothes. There was very little taken, of course. But, as regards details, I can not give you much. I have been too busy.
Q - You have not the names of these men?
A - We have the names.
Q - You have not them here with you?
A - I have not got them with me; no, sir.


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1st class Passenger William Hoyt from No. 14, 3rd Class Passenger David Livshin (who was travelling under the name Abraham Harmer) who was taken over from No. B into No. 12 also Able Bodied Seaman William Lyons and Bedroom Steward Sidney Siebert who were rescued from the water by No. 4.
 
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Nov 8, 2016
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It seems like the general consensus has always been that Lightoller was mistaking Bride for Phillips. However, I think it's hard for us to understand how absolute pitch dark it must have been with no moon in the middle of the North Atlantic. I bet their visibility was only a few feet or so. So it's possible that Bride and Phillips may have been on different ends of the boat.

I don't think Bride would make up seeing the dead corpse of his friend, so I think it's very possible that both were on B. Thus, Phillips would have been among those that the Carpathia buried at sea.
Yeah that would make the most sense!!
1st class Passenger William Hoyt from No. 14, 3rd Class Passenger David Livshin (who was travelling under the name Abraham Harmer) who was taken over from No. B into No. 12 also Able Bodied Seaman William Lyons and Bedroom Steward Sidney Siebert who were rescued from the water by No. 4.
this is the bit that's confusing about what happened to jack Phillips. Bride recalls seeing Phillips' body on the carpathia which would mean he was likely buried at sea from there, but it's interesting that his body wasn't ever revealed to be one of the four that were buried from the carpathia. I'm sure lightoller would've been able to ID Phillips as one of the dead. Perhaps Jack was buried before these four separately? I'm sure that Phillips was on collapsible.B and died after that boats inhabitants were transferred, it just makes the most sense. There would be no reason for Lightoller to make up the conversation he had with Phillips or for Bride to lie about seeing Phillips' body.
 

Adam Perry

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"At last the Carpathia was alongside, and the people were being taken up a rope ladder. Our boat drew near, and one by one the men were taken off of it. One man was dead. I passed him, and went to a ladder, although my feet pained me terribly."
I'm not convinced he saw the body and recognised him as Phillips. I'm thinking he went by the body and someone told him afterwards that it was Phillips, I personally believe Phillips wasn't on collapsible B.
 

Adam Perry

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To back up my point, this taken from the US Senate Inquiry Day 10

Senator SMITH.
Did you ever see him alive after that?

Mr. BRIDE.
I saw him walking aft as I was helping to get the collapsible onto A deck.

Senator SMITH.
And he got aboard the collapsible, too?

Mr. BRIDE.
I am told.
 

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