Were Titanic Historical Records Destroyed during WW2

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Glenn Miller (Glenn)

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I have read, here and elsewhere, that models of the Titanic have been built from "original drawings". Years ago I happened across a comment that stated the record vaults, that held many of these original drawings, were destroyed (all or partially) during the bombings of WW2. This would have been the Cunnard facilities that were bombed.
 

Mike Herbold

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Glenn:
I'm not up on my WWII history like I used to be. Did the Germans bomb Ireland also? Seems to me all the original drawings would be at Harland & Wolff and not at Cunard.
Mike
 

Christina

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During a German bombing raid on Belfast in WW2, bombs fell on the Harland and Wolff Shipyards, destroying and damaging a number of buildings.

Among the things that were destroyed were the construction blueprints for "Olympic" and "Titanic". These were printed on fabric (linen, I think).

I know at least one other copy of them survived, but I'm not sure how, or who had them. It might have been Cunard, but that doesn't sound right... and I don't know if they exist anymore now.
 
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Dave Gittins

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H & W was raided by the Luftwaffe with fairly serious damage. H & W were making planes as well as ships at the time, so they were a worthwhile target. Plenty of Titanic drawings survived and are available to this day.

I believe that a very serious loss in other raids was the log of Californian, but I don't have the full facts on this. I would be interested to hear the facts.
 
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Jack Dawson

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Don't get too upset that I pulled this ancient post back up for a fresh breath. It really is a good question and I have questions about it yet. Now, weren't a lot of the census records destroyed by the Luftwaffe raids in WW2? How much Titanic related material was destroyed?

Do we have any detailed information to elaborate on Dave's comment regarding the Californian logs?
 
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timberwolf

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I have read, here and elsewhere, that models of the Titanic have been built from "original drawings". Years ago I happened across a comment that stated the record vaults, that held many of these original drawings, were destroyed (all or partially) during the bombings of WW2. This would have been the Cunnard facilities that were bombed.
Is it possible the records were destroyed to stop a discovery of a major flaw in the Titanic's structure or body
 

timberwolf

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Maybe not the structure what about the oxidization level of the metal used as a welder I know that certain metals will weaken in colder waters they eventually Crack which can cause failure
 

Dave Gittins

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The steel business has been done to death. There should be plenty about it elsewhere. In brief, some years ago, a test piece from the wreck was subjected to a Charpy notch test, in which a small hammer strikes the sample sharply. A sample at 0°C broke smartly. This received great publicity at the time. Less attention was paid to later tests in which the sample was bent at a slower rate, as it would be in a collision. This time the sample simply bent. There is plenty of bent steel in the wreck. It's simply not an issue. Ioannis put it bluntly and correctly.

What I'd like to find are documents concerning the civil claims that were made against White Star in Britain and settled out of court. We have great details about four claims that went to court. White Star lost these, because the court found its servants negligent and because conditions on the contract tickets, intended to protect White Star, were invalid. Following the loss, we know that at least some claimants withdrew their claims in the US court in the hope of getting better treatment in Britain. There seems to be no record of their claims. The documents may have been dumped when Cunard and White Star combined in the 1930s.
 
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timberwolf

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True going onto the court thing r there any relitives of the people who made these claims if so they must have some old family story or documents of this I f u r interested I would enjoy listening to any reasurch u have on titanic
 
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Dave Gittins

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The problem is that we don't know who made claims after the British court cases were settled. We do know that Lily Futrelle, Gilbert M Tucker and Hilda Mary Lacon all withdrew their claims in the US, but that's where the trail ends.
 
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timberwolf

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Wouldn't bending in the wreak be caused by the ship hitting the sea floor at the speed it was probably going at it would hit the bottom with a lot of pressure causing bending in the area of impact
 

timberwolf

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Sorry about that I ment about the bending from the test that Dave mentioned u might understand what I was saying more not to be rude also I would appreciate if that if u have any questions on what I am posting please message me so I can try to clarify what I am trying to say
 

Mark Baber

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Moderator's hat on:

Folks, let's keep the discussion focused on substance, not writing skills and etiquette.

timberwolf, some of your messages are difficult to understand. Please use a spell checker, employ standard punctuation and capitalization and avoid texting shorthand like "u" and "r" and we can avoid further discussions of this sort..

Thanks.

Moderator's hat off.
 
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Andrew Williams

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I tent to agree much with Dave Gittins statement of the 29th of July. However, I do have a letter from Hill Dickinson from Liverpool - the main solicitors employed by White Star at (Liverpool). Most of the claims were dealt with directly in court and pretty fast and thus reported back to Liverpool to confirm the outcome. What Dave and the rest of us don't know is what I discovered purely by accident with the Southampton branch of the Relief Fund. Have to report back later with dates. Boy this was one hell of a shock. The orchestrateor may well have been Corkhill up in Liverpool but no level of correspondence survives to confirm this. Need I say anymore, Phillip Curry took the floor by storm at Southampton and proceeded to ask if the Relief Fund was prepared to view and try and settle a figure with the outstanding cases. Foolishly Southampton said yes without consulting London first. How many remained "outstanding" is difficult to judge as no true figure was mentioned let alone the names, that were making claims of a much higher figure than what we see published locally with the Southampton papers. One of the most striking cases deals with Ada Florence Murdock. She actually submitted a claim for well over £3,000 (Three thousand Pounds) and there's another for the life of me I cannot remember off the top of my head. The feeling I sense is that the "outstanding" claims may well have finished by the late twenties reaching into the early thirties.

In the case of the letter I received from Hill Dickinson's up in Liverpool some years back, they kind off hint they know far more than they are letting on as the last paragraph proves they've shoot themselves in the foot as they may well have something on record hidden away, out of sight and out of mind. The Claims took a lot longer than we are led to believe.
 

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