WH Baker Letter re Mount Temple

[Paul Slish]

Paul Lee. Thanks for the info on the Mount Temple's log. Could you post what the log says for April 15, 1912? It would be interesting to read.

 

[Paul Lee]

Its currently in storage, but I'll see if I can find it soon. Believe me, it doesn't mention the Titanic at all!

 

[Paul Lee]

According to Capt.Moore shortly after he docked in New Brunswick, he said that he passed the Carpathia at 9.30pm on April 14th. Perhaps more experienced Navigators can look at this, but it doesn't seem likely based on what we know of the Mount Temple's navigation.

 

[Samuel Halpern]

Paul, did the report say he sighted the Carpathia at 9.30 pm, or was it a wireless exchange of positions? Passing the Carpathia about that time is about right from what I could tell of the movements of both ships. However, the MT would have passed north of the Carpathia track by about 10 miles close to that time. Their respective track lines would have come within about 6 miles of each other.

 

[Paul Lee]

Hi Sam,
It says, "About 9.30 on Sunday night the steamer Carpathia passed us".

I extrapolated the Mount Temple's position back 3 hours from her stated DR position, based on a course to New Brunswick, and did the same for the Carpathia's position, based on the recalculated location on Dave Gittin's website. Of course, I didn't know the speed of either ship, or the actual course, so I had to make some guesses, but it looks to me like something is amiss.

 

[Dave Gittins]

We have only limited data. According to Bisset, Carpathia was doing a very accurate 14 knots before the CQD. The problem is we don't have her course. We know what Mount Temple did. She went to 41.15N, 50W and turned for New Brunswick. I think she was doing about 11 knots. We know her position when she got the CQD and can work back from it.

I didn't work it out in detail, but a crude check puts the ships a good 20 miles apart at 9-30pm. Time on both ships was much the same.

I wouldn't lose sleep over something in the press.

 

[Samuel Halpern]

Dave's right Paul. Don't lose sleep over this. But if you do try and work it backward you should use the DR locations of the alter-course points used by Moore and Rostron. Rostron's can be estimated based on his N52W course to the SOS site and a 58 mile DR distance. I got 41°10'N, 49°13'W for that. For MT the DR a/c point was at 41°25'N, 51°14'W. As Dave said, MT was on a line coming up from 41°15'N, 50°00'W. The Carpathia was on a GC route to Gibraltar. I projected her GC route from her a/c point to a point due west from Gibraltar. These routes can be seen HERE. The thing about Moore was that he was not claiming to be precise. About 9:30 must have been what he gave as an estimate. I have them at closest approach somewhat earlier than that. The MT and the Carpathia altered their respective course within a few minutes of each other. (I'm going by NY times in PVs.) As Dave pointed out the Carpathia was reported about 14 knots. The MT at full speed was about 11.5 knots according to Moore. What I did was simply estimate the change in longitude based on those speeds working back from their respective a/c points. Doing this you would find that the two should have been close about 3.5 hours before they turned around, near a DR longitude of 50°20'W, and a little more than 10 miles apart.

Cheers.

 

[Paul Lee]

Don't worry, I won't lose sleep over it. Its just interesting thats all. The rest of his press interview is extremely accurate and ties in with what he said in Washington and London. Even if 9.30 is only a rough time, it still makes you wonder.

I'd put the distance between the two at 9.30 to be between 20 and 30 miles apart, using a few guesstimates. Carpathia was helped in the eastward progress by a E/ENE current. I feel that the Mount Temple would have been retarded by this current, making her further east than Captain Moore thinks he was, and hence closer to the actual wrecksite.

 

[Samuel Halpern]

Paul. The distance between them at 9.30 is not the point since the time given may have been somewhat uncertain. What is more interesting is the minimum distance between the ships when they would have passed each other. I'm assuming the two were in visual contact at one point, or they were in wireless contact and exchanged DR positions. How else would you know that you passed another ship at a certain time? From their track lines, they should have been in visual distance of each other that night.

I feel that the Mount Temple would have been retarded by this current, making her further east than Captain Moore thinks he was, and hence closer to the actual wrecksite.

I agree. Both Moore and Rostron were probably set further east than they realized. It also would explain a few things.

Did the Moore interview give any other times concerning other events?

 

[Paul Lee]

I wish I'd picked this up yesterday! I'd just filed the interview this afternoon. Give me time and Ive retrieve it.

I've drawn the following sketch to perhaps illustrate what I mean. There are just so many variables. The MT/Carpathia meeting place can be placed in a large radius of uncertainty.

 

[Samuel Halpern]

Paul. Assuming the two ships were affected by the same current set and drift then the only thing that matters is their relative position from each other at any time. There closest approach can be worked by DR based on their respective DR a/c points, their speeds and course lines. Once you get the DR of the closest approach you can then adjust it by the current that was used to adjust the a/c points.