What happened to Britannic's smokestacks?

[Severin Vogt]

I know that on the sinking of the Titanic, in the end, the smokestacks all toppled off when it sank. But what about the Britannic? Did her smokestacks fall off too? It one video on YouTube (HMHS BRITANNIC SINKS - REAL TIME DOCUMENTARY), it has at the end that all the Britannic's smokestacks fall off. With another video (HMHS Britannic Sinking), it has the first two falling off but not the third and fourth. Also, please tell me why the smokestacks usually fall off when a ship sinks. I'd like to know.

 

[Stephen Carey]

The smokestacks - or funnels in UK - are light casings that enclose the actual uptakes (which carry the exhaust gases) for the purpose of aesthetics. They are built round the uptakes which are supported by an internal framework. The funnel casings are stayed with wires and are not meant to be subjected to large angles of heel or trim. When Titanic and Britannic sank, there was a lot of stress on the shrouds holding the funnels up, which broke and allowed the funnel to fall, carrying the uptakes with it.

In the photograph you can see the uptakes (4 of them) projecting out of the light funnel structure.
Incidentally when the Queen Mary was refurbished in Long Beach, her funnels fell to bits when they tried to remove them. In a video of the scrapping of either Olympic or Aquitania (not sure which) you can see the funnel toppling and flattening when it hits the deck.

 

[Severin Vogt]

That's cool! Thanks for the info! Also, did the Lusitania's funnels falls off too?

 

[Aaron_2016]

I understand the 3rd funnel of the Lusitania broke and fell over the starboard side directly onto a lifeboat that was just being lowered. The wireless operator jumped out of the boat just in time. Mrs Royd was in a lifeboat that was directly underneath the one that was struck by the funnel. It caused the lifeboat above her to crash down on top of her boat, throwing her into the water.


Robert Leith (wireless operator)

Q - How long were you in that boat?
A - Just a matter of moments.

Q - What did you leave the boat for?
A - The ship's funnel appeared to be coming down on top of me at the time, or it appeared to be so, so I sprung from that boat to another one.


Mrs Mabel Royd (passenger)

"We no sooner got into the boat than it was lowered with another boat on top of us, and a funnel fell on to us."
Q - Do you mean it really actually fell on to you?
A - Well, directly we got into the boat, we were aware of another ship's boat being lowered on to us, and a broken funnel may have fallen on to that boat or was falling at the same time.

Q - You did get away, at any rate?
A - No, we did not get clear; we had just got into the boat as this happened.

Q - The boat that was being lowered on the top of you was not lowered so far as to actually fall upon your boat?
A - Yes, it was the cause of our boat going down.

Q - It actually struck your boat?
A - Yes, it actually struck our boat, and turned our boat over and we went down under the water.

Q - And do you remember what happened to you after that?
A - Well I was in the water. I had a lifebelt on and I was underneath for a few seconds, and then I came to the surface again.......

Here is footage of the forward funnel falling on the liner Ile De France.

Skip to 4:43

youtube:JCUC2dQUuFc

Here is footage of two funnels falling on the liner Berengaria.

Skip to 2:10

youtube:w69JhCqNlFg

 

[Kyle Naber]

I thought that the funnels fell because of a pressure difference between the water and the trapped air inside the funnel, causing the bases to crumple in, sending it downwards. I may be wrong.

 

[Robert T. Paige]

The smokestacks - or funnels in UK - are light casings that enclose the actual uptakes (which carry the exhaust gases) for the purpose of aesthetics. They are built round the uptakes which are supported by an internal framework. The funnel casings are stayed with wires and are not meant to be subjected to large angles of heel or trim. When Titanic and Britannic sank, there was a lot of stress on the shrouds holding the funnels up, which broke and allowed the funnel to fall, carrying the uptakes with it. View attachment 3082
In the photograph you can see the uptakes (4 of them) projecting out of the light funnel structure.
Incidentally when the Queen Mary was refurbished in Long Beach, her funnels fell to bits when they tried to remove them. In a video of the scrapping of either Olympic or Aquitania (not sure which) you can see the funnel toppling and flattening when it hits the deck.

One of the stories on the Queen Mary at Long Beach was that the metal in the funnels had so corroded that they fell apart as they were being removed. "The only thing holding them together was (the many coats of) paint." Of course the present re-constructed funnels on Hotel Queen Mary are strictly for decoration only and serve no other purpose.

 

[PCash]

The smokestacks - or funnels in UK - are light casings that enclose the actual uptakes (which carry the exhaust gases) for the purpose of aesthetics. They are built round the uptakes which are supported by an internal framework. The funnel casings are stayed with wires and are not meant to be subjected to large angles of heel or trim. When Titanic and Britannic sank, there was a lot of stress on the shrouds holding the funnels up, which broke and allowed the funnel to fall, carrying the uptakes with it. View attachment 3082
In the photograph you can see the uptakes (4 of them) projecting out of the light funnel structure.
Incidentally when the Queen Mary was refurbished in Long Beach, her funnels fell to bits when they tried to remove them. In a video of the scrapping of either Olympic or Aquitania (not sure which) you can see the funnel toppling and flattening when it hits the deck.

The video you are thinking of concerns the scrapping of the Berengaria. On impact with the deck, one of her funnels flattens out.

 

[taalvolcano1754]

I feel that the question of how Britannic's funnels fell must be clarified amidst the explanations of  why and  how fallen funnels fall the way they did.

When it comes to Britannic, coverage of the funnel collapses are far and between, and if you're lucky to find one, it usually only says that "the funnels fell one by one". We are fortunate, however, in that we have not only the extant accounts of Corporal J. Waugh and Captain Bartlett, which we can use in conjunction with the funnels' positions on the seabed to infer, because as far as I am aware the scarcity of material available is such that determination on the level of that of Titanic's funnels is impossible, some idea of the conditions under which they fell.

Waugh says:
As each funnel touched the water it was torn off just like paper . . .

Scour George Perman explicitly said the funnels fell first to fourth in numerical order, but I have not come into contaxt with his testimony as of yet so I cannot quote his exact words.

Given what we know about how Britannic sank, it follows that the order of collapse was first-second-third-fourth. Easy conclusion to stay with, but the wreck does not bear this out very well. Attached is a sketch by Ken Marschall which made the rounds on a Britannic Facebook group, which must date to the 1995 Ballard expedition of which he was a part. The sketch depicts the positions of Britannic's funnels on the seabed. It is immediately apparent that of all four, it is only the first which can be considered as close to the wreck, while the rest are some considerable distance away. How explain such a discrepancy if the first funnel supposedly collapsed at the same distance from the water and in the same way as the other three? I am personally driven to believe it never actually broke off on the surface, but detached from the ship when it struck the seabed.

I mentioned Captain Bartlett's testimony, which I believe holds much more weight because he had gotten off the ship only a few minutes after the events he describes.

He says:
The ship was sinking very quickly then, going by the head and listing to starboard and soon the water came to the bridge and Assistant Commander Dyke having reported to me that all had left, I told him to go and shortly after followed myself, walking into the water by the forward boat gantry on Starboard side, the third funnel falling a few minutes later.

Here we have a direct contradiction of Waugh's testimony of the funnels falling as soon as they touched the water. The bridge was just starting to flood, but the third funnel fell only a few minutes after. It is impossible that the ship sank so fast as to bring the base of the third funnel to the water just a few minutes after the bridge flooded. It must be inferred that the funnel fell in a completely dry condition.

Curiously, the other funnels aren't mentioned. One can argue that if a funnel was gone it would have warranted mention for being such an abnormal event, but aside from my speculation of the timing of the collapse of the first funnel I have endeavored to give only pre-existing first-hand statements and shed light on them.

I do hope this topic sparks more discussion and, most helpful to the study of Britannic, the surfacing of more survivor recountings.

 

[PCash]

"It is impossible that the ship sank so fast as to bring the base of the third funnel to the water just a few minutes after the bridge flooded."

Why?

The damage caused to Britannic's hull when she struck the sea-mine (as far as the testimonials of survivors of the sinking and surveys of the wreck on the seafloor suggest); was equal to and probably worse than that inflicted by the iceberg to Titanic's hull four years earlier.

Also, the extra 'safety' factor built in to Britannic were invalidated by a) the unfortunate coincidence of striking the mine during the change of watch, resulting in watertight doors being damaged in the open position; b) portholes on E & D Decks left open by Medical staff attempting to 'air the wards' in advance of embarking more casualties and c) the Captain's decision to restart the engine's in a failed attempt to beach the vessel.

All of these factors (combined with the increasing starboard list), accelerated the rate of flooding and resulted in Britannic disappearing below the surface of the Kea Channel in less than an hour.

Britannic would have had little (if any) buoyancy left by the time her bridge was flooding. Consequently, it is possible that only minutes later, the sea was lapping at the base of the third funnel.